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03-05-2017, 04:24 PM   #781
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QuoteOriginally posted by Saltwater Images Quote
If Ricoh wants to learn how to drive sales, they need to establish a physical market presence in retail locations - then launch a marketing campaign with physical media amplifying digital channels. Perhaps one of the best examples of doing this right is Samsung's NX campaign "We Are David Bailey" in the UK....
Samsung - We are David Bailey - YouTube

But it was all hype, Saltwater Images, that ended in Samsung exiting the market.

More David Hasselhof than David Bailey.

03-05-2017, 04:34 PM   #782
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
If all you see in my post is a history lesson you're entirely missing the point.
What is the point?
03-05-2017, 04:35 PM   #783
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Physical stores are useful for buyers such as I, who knowingly and willingly pay a premium for local access, touch and try, personal service and consultation - and who, as a matter of principle and personal integrity, will not buy online after showrooming at the local store.

The retail channel is moving to a higher priced Client Experience model just like the manufacturers.
03-05-2017, 04:47 PM - 4 Likes   #784
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
What is the point?
The arrogance of youth is a poor teacher.

03-05-2017, 04:48 PM   #785
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
The arrogance of youth is a poor teacher.
Vague statement. Can you be more descriptive (in the context of our discussion)?
03-05-2017, 04:57 PM   #786
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Monochrome has already said it.
03-05-2017, 05:00 PM   #787
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Monochrome has already said it.
The physical stores comment?

It has no correlation to knowing the history of Pentax and how a 50 f/1.4 is considered a reference lens... and then stretching that to saying if you don't know that history, it somehow makes you a lesser photographer.
03-05-2017, 05:07 PM   #788
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QuoteOriginally posted by Saltwater Images Quote
Alex, I couldn't disagree more. A decade ago the vision by some was that online would be future. Human beings are creatures of emotion driven things they can touch and interact with.

If Ricoh thinks pretty pictures and videos online are going to drive sales - then they are in the marketing space of the previous decade. Here is an example:

Prior to last Friday; I have never had any desire to purchase a K-1. Henry's has a dismal selection of Pentax on a good day so my expectations were low. The feel of the K-1 was amazing, control layout was perfect, balance was exceptional. Now I'm reassessing my next camera body - which prior to last Friday would have most certainly been APS-C.
Iʻm not saying I personally donʻt prefer brick and mortar....when I lived in LA, I gladly paid Bel-Air Camera nearly list price because of their inventory, help/advice, and "value"....although there was a cheaper electronics warehouse not far from them. But I now live in a state where all the brick and mortar camera stores have left. I donʻt count Costco, Samʻs, Walmart, Target, or Bestbuy because even IF they carried Pentax, the sales staff knows next to nothing about photography. Film has had a resurgence, so we actually have a film camera store that is thriving.

Iʻm also saddened that LA and Chicago donʻt have the brick and mortar that they once did like Calumet. Samyʻs in LA seems to be like Henryʻs with just a few Pentax leftovers from Black Friday.

The highlight of my last visit to New York was four hours in B&H. So again, I personally value B&M but without internet sales, Adorama, B&H, KEH, etc, would be gone by now. Glad you got to handle the K-1...Pentax did well on their first FF. Did you buy it from Henryʻs? And if not, will you?

03-05-2017, 05:11 PM   #789
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Knowing the history of the Piano isn't making me a better pianist. More practice at the keys might though..
Knowing the history of piano building won't make you a (much) better pianist, but knowing the history of piano playing sure will. So I don't personally feel much obligation to know who made the "best" 50mm in 1972 or somesuch. But studying the works Sebastiao Salgado, Lewis Hine, Ansel Adams, Cartier-Bresson, and so on... now that is important.
03-05-2017, 05:30 PM   #790
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QuoteOriginally posted by Doundounba Quote
Knowing the history of piano building won't make you a (much) better pianist, but knowing the history of piano playing sure will...
Knowing the history in what way? Listening to music from previous historical periods? Maybe. Knowing Frans Liszt was a sort of Elvis of his day and/or knowing the dates Chopin was in a specific city during X year does not.

Just like knowing in 1958 (or whenever) Pentax had a team of X Y and Z guys developing the ___mm f/X.x lens that took the world by storm isn't helping anyone become a better photographer.. that is along the lines of knowing the history of piano building.

A ludicrous point was made and now others are trying to shoehorn it into something a bit more realistic...


QuoteOriginally posted by Doundounba Quote
So I don't personally feel much obligation to know who made the best 50mm in 1972 or somesuch. But studying the works Sebastiao Salgado, Lewis Hine, Ansel Adams, Cartier-Bresson, and so on... now that is important.
But that is the argument provided.. knowing who made the best 50 in some foregone year is somehow going to make one a better photographer. Again that's a bizarre point to try to make..

That said, as an aside, I have a less taste for studying a person's art to the point they become an idol.. I think there is MUCH too much focus on past artists. They are their person, you and I are each our own. They created their art, we individually create our own. Otherwise Salgado, Hine, Adams, and Cartier-Bresson were arrogant not to study their 'forefathers' art and be just like them.

Do your own art. Even if it is not publicly accepted at the same level of any of the idolized and tiresome names. We have too many people today who are followers trying to be socially accepted by the interwebs. Not a lot of leaders out there willing to stick their necks out.. to risk being different. I think you should do your own thing and either society gets on board or they don't.. at least you were honest with yourself and were you. If that is arrogant then so be it. I can sleep at night knowing I was me and not some Ansel Adams wannabe clone.

Last edited by mee; 03-05-2017 at 05:40 PM.
03-05-2017, 06:20 PM - 1 Like   #791
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The DSLR is not a low-end consumer item. Yes eCommerce is booming. I know this better than most as I work with businesses to build or enhance their omni-channel strategy to enhance consumer engagement. 15 years ago the choice for a consumer was bricks or clicks. When most companies went online they either started eCommerce shipping from their main warehouse or opened a warehouse dedicated to fulfilling online orders. It tied up a lot of SKU's and a lot of inventory dollars. Today consumers aren't looking to choose one channel or the other but want to access both.

We live in a era of duality. Digital media, Physical media. Online shopping, in-store shopping. Smart businesses use both to amplify one another. I have a few clients that have profiled their online customer database against their in-store database. In each case the online and in-store customers were the same customer. The channels didn't compete with one another - they complimented one another to increase the business's share of the customer's wallet.

Here's another example of how things are evolving. Bonobos started as an online retailer in the USA. They have since built a brick and mortar network that fuels their eCommerce growth...now they're adding the traditional physical catalogue to work alongside digital marketing...

Bonobos Adds to its Brand With a Catalog

Last edited by Saltwater Images; 03-05-2017 at 06:29 PM. Reason: added
03-05-2017, 07:52 PM   #792
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For retailers, there's no question that omni-channel enhances customer engagement and that smart retailers use both to amplify each other. But it is a question of which SKUs do they carry in each local shop.

Although the channels do not compete with each other within a given retailer (at least they shouldn't), the bricks-n-clicks retailers do compete against clicks-only retailers that don't have all the overhead of high-priced urban real estate, nice stores, and costly sales staff. Some fraction of DSLR sales are going to always go to online stores that offer the lowest prices to customers who live too far from a physical store, know exactly what they want based on internet research, or have no ethical qualms visiting a local retailer but then buying at the lowest online price.
03-05-2017, 07:53 PM - 2 Likes   #793
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Knowing the history in what way? Listening to music from previous historical periods? Maybe. Knowing Frans Liszt was a sort of Elvis of his day and/or knowing the dates Chopin was in a specific city during X year does not.

Just like knowing in 1958 (or whenever) Pentax had a team of X Y and Z guys developing the ___mm f/X.x lens that took the world by storm isn't helping anyone become a better photographer.. that is along the lines of knowing the history of piano building.

A ludicrous point was made and now others are trying to shoehorn it into something a bit more realistic...




But that is the argument provided.. knowing who made the best 50 in some foregone year is somehow going to make one a better photographer. Again that's a bizarre point to try to make..

That said, as an aside, I have a less taste for studying a person's art to the point they become an idol.. I think there is MUCH too much focus on past artists. They are their person, you and I are each our own. They created their art, we individually create our own. Otherwise Salgado, Hine, Adams, and Cartier-Bresson were arrogant not to study their 'forefathers' art and be just like them.

Do your own art. Even if it is not publicly accepted at the same level of any of the idolized and tiresome names. We have too many people today who are followers trying to be socially accepted by the interwebs. Not a lot of leaders out there willing to stick their necks out.. to risk being different. I think you should do your own thing and either society gets on board or they don't.. at least you were honest with yourself and were you. If that is arrogant then so be it. I can sleep at night knowing I was me and not some Ansel Adams wannabe clone.
Ugh. Okay, I also don't understand monochrome's point about the history of 50mm lenses, but this is definitely not right. Sure, you might not want to be an Ansel Adams wannabe clone, but by not studying the notable photography movements, you're likely to end up repeating the tropes of them, rather than subverting them and taking your own spin on things or playing them straight with intention.
03-05-2017, 08:07 PM   #794
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What's interesting about 50 mm lens on a 35mm frame (50 being about twice the width of 24 mm film frame height) is that an 8x10 print held at 16" exactly replicates what the perspective that the eye would have seen had the viewer been there.

The focal length that creates the most natural image is one in which the ratio of the viewing distance to print or screen size is the same as the ratio of focal length to film/digital format frame size.
03-05-2017, 08:10 PM   #795
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithedreamer Quote
Ugh. Okay, I also don't understand monochrome's point about the history of 50mm lenses, but this is definitely not right. Sure, you might not want to be an Ansel Adams wannabe clone, but by not studying the notable photography movements, you're likely to end up repeating the tropes of them, rather than subverting them and taking your own spin on things or playing them straight with intention.
It is right for me. It may not be right for you.

Either way, I'm not having an issue with being able to stand out. Nor am I trying to be famous or well respected in any art community. I'm simply doing my own thing. However, if I scrutinized the work of famous photographers in hopes of gleaning some insight in what is considered good art vs poor art I might not. Because then I'm bending to what THEY consider good art vs poor art.

This isn't a political or military movement so I'm not subverting anyone... I'm simply approaching art in my own way.

I've been forced to take far too many art 'appreciation' classes not to realize it is largely a bunch of butt kissing. And I don't own stock in chapstick to start doing that..

I can respect other artists and their work, it doesn't mean I want to be them, study them, or study their processes at length. If my work matches anothers then great. If it does not then great. I don't think many artists really focus with the low level detail I see so many in academia do and become their own artists.

Last edited by mee; 03-05-2017 at 08:16 PM.
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