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03-11-2017, 08:16 AM - 1 Like   #841
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QuoteOriginally posted by wed7 Quote
And I was fool to assume that they will release the wider primes first and they lack wider focal length lenses/primes both for apsc and FF😑
50 and 85mm are low hanging fruit. It is wide to ultra-wide angle primes that are probably hardest to create for full frame, while 50 and 85 are about the easiest.

The comments earlier that say that a lot of the time going into this are probably about making processes in the factories adequate to turn out the quality of glass they want this to be seems accurate. You can get a lens formula together on a computer, but making sure that you can get that lens out the door with minimal numbers of decentered lenses or lenses with focus problems, etc is probably the issue. A lot easier when you are dealing with the f2.8 nature of the DA limited lenses.

03-11-2017, 08:34 AM - 1 Like   #842
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
50 and 85mm are low hanging fruit. It is wide to ultra-wide angle primes that are probably hardest to create for full frame, while 50 and 85 are about the easiest.

The comments earlier that say that a lot of the time going into this are probably about making processes in the factories adequate to turn out the quality of glass they want this to be seems accurate. You can get a lens formula together on a computer, but making sure that you can get that lens out the door with minimal numbers of decentered lenses or lenses with focus problems, etc is probably the issue. A lot easier when you are dealing with the f2.8 nature of the DA limited lenses.
Thanks for the clarification, for apsc, even the wide angle zoom is still a red dash on the roadmap, and I just learned that it has been there for almost 5 years, I just cancelled my order if KP, I really need to lower my expectations from Pentax. 😑 They just can't deliver on time and what their users want most.
03-11-2017, 12:14 PM - 2 Likes   #843
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QuoteOriginally posted by wed7 Quote
Thanks for the clarification, for apsc, even the wide angle zoom is still a red dash on the roadmap, and I just learned that it has been there for almost 5 years, I just cancelled my order if KP, I really need to lower my expectations from Pentax. �� They just can't deliver on time and what their users want most.
You mean haven't done what you want at the time that you want it.

Last edited by monochrome; 03-11-2017 at 12:25 PM.
03-11-2017, 01:07 PM   #844
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
You mean haven't done what you want at the time that you want it.
The DA 12-24 is over a decade old and outdated, loads of people want a new APS-C UWA (including me). In fact, it's probably one of the most requested lenses. That Pentax has had an intention of making one and announced that publicly (because that's essentially what a public roadmap is), but has been unable or unwilling to deliver on that for half a decade, is pretty embarrassing.

03-11-2017, 01:58 PM   #845
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Does Pentax really need an ultra wide prime? Is this not covered by 3rd parties already as well as Pentax (DA 4/15 Ltd for crop)? Also some of the UWA zooms are pretty good, like the Sigma 8-16.

How about a fast 21mm for full frame?
03-11-2017, 01:58 PM - 1 Like   #846
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
The DA 12-24 is over a decade old and outdated, loads of people want a new APS-C UWA (including me). In fact, it's probably one of the most requested lenses. That Pentax has had an intention of making one and announced that publicly (because that's essentially what a public roadmap is), but has been unable or unwilling to deliver on that for half a decade, is pretty embarrassing.
Your priorities have not been aligned with Pentax priorities for over half a decade, and you are either unwilling or unable to accept that. Must be pretty embarrassing to admit it publicly because that is essentially what an internet post is.

Last edited by monochrome; 03-11-2017 at 02:12 PM.
03-11-2017, 02:07 PM   #847
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
What you mean is your priorities are not aligned with Pentax priorities. Sux when that happens, but there are things you can do about it.
For many people it's not.
03-11-2017, 02:53 PM   #848
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QuoteOriginally posted by HopelessTogger Quote
Does Pentax really need an ultra wide prime? Is this not covered by 3rd parties already as well as Pentax (DA 4/15 Ltd for crop)? Also some of the UWA zooms are pretty good, like the Sigma 8-16.

How about a fast 21mm for full frame?
Sigma is basically a dead man walking as far as k-mount lenses are offered new. There are still a few available but they've stated repeatedly that they won't be adding any more to what's available now. This has been the situation for a while now. Tamron is in the same category. The 3rd party situation isn't great. Meanwhile the Pentax 15mm is an APS-C lens that vignettes hard on full frame. I think the last wide prime that Pentax offered is the long discontinued FA 20mm. Samyang is offering its new 20mm prime which seems to review well but there's not a lot of professional reviews of this lens out yet and nothing that I've seen done on a K-1.

---------- Post added 03-11-17 at 04:54 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Your priorities have not been aligned with Pentax priorities for over half a decade, and you are either unwilling or unable to accept that. Must be pretty embarrassing to admit it publicly because that is essentially what an internet post is.
Just what exactly are Pentax's priorities again? I must have missed this memo.

03-11-2017, 02:57 PM   #849
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
Sigma is basically a dead man walking as far as k-mount lenses are offered new. There are still a few available but they've stated repeatedly that they won't be adding any more to what's available now. This has been the situation for a while now. Tamron is in the same category. The 3rd party situation isn't great. Meanwhile the Pentax 15mm is an APS-C lens that vignettes hard on full frame. I think the last wide prime that Pentax offered is the long discontinued FA 20mm. Samyang is offering its new 20mm prime which seems to review well but there's not a lot of professional reviews of this lens out yet and nothing that I've seen done on a K-1.

---------- Post added 03-11-17 at 04:54 PM ----------


My
Just what exactly are Pentax's priorities again? I must have missed this memo.
By a process of elimination I deduce an ultra wide Prime is not one of them.

People who want or need narrow-use lenses that aren't offered at this time, and who criticize Pentax for not offering them (using pejorative terms such as embarrassing) simply refuse to accept the decline of the camera market since 2012, the fact that Pentax is tiny and resource-constrained, sells 50% of its product in Japan, little in Europe and almost none in N.A., and that they have chosen cameras and lenses to produce for their primary markets.

Such critics may argue the business sense of those decisions, but neither they nor I know anything about what's really going on inside Pentax. I submit Pentax has made good choices, which by definition means their priorities are described by their current and recent past catalog. Consequently such demeaning criticism has no basis. It is just inflammatory internet agitprop.

Last edited by monochrome; 03-11-2017 at 03:16 PM.
03-11-2017, 03:02 PM - 2 Likes   #850
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
By a process of elimination I deduce an ultra wide Prime is not one of them.
Oh. I figured it was getting caught flat footed after delivering their first full frame DSLR to market without a better compliment of lenses. Maybe we're both right.
03-11-2017, 03:03 PM   #851
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Probably. But that will be more expensive than current options and the same equation will apply. Beyond which, Pentax isn't going to re-do the 200mm prime until they get the 20mm/35mm/50mm/85mm slots taken care of (which will probably take a couple of years minimum to accomplish).
Agreed. And 200/2.8 is low priority IMO.
03-11-2017, 03:05 PM   #852
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
You mean haven't done what you want at the time that you want it.
I do not think I am the only one who yearned for those here, like I said, I was a fool to assume it would come first. The 50/1.4 was not the even the top most requested lens according to the recent lens survey. And Ricoh does not even finish collecting it. Shame.
03-11-2017, 03:23 PM   #853
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QuoteOriginally posted by wed7 Quote
I do not think I am the only one who yearned for those here, like I said, I was a fool to assume it would come first. The 50/1.4 was not the even the top most requested lens according to the recent lens survey. And Ricoh does not even finish collecting it. Shame.
Which lens survey was that?
03-11-2017, 03:37 PM   #854
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Which lens survey was that?
Please refer to the latest CP+ interview by Adam.
03-11-2017, 03:39 PM - 1 Like   #855
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
Oh. I figured it was getting caught flat footed after delivering their first full frame DSLR to market without a better compliment of lenses. Maybe we're both right.
Caught flat-footed?

I think we can discern from recent interviews their plan was to bring a combination of self-designed and rebranded zooms at first, since lens design is a five year undertaking. K-1 took two years.

We also can infer from the discussion of the 70~200 delay, caused by lack of manufacturing precision, that Pentax is still trying to make do with some old pre-Hoya machines and tools. I interpreted that paragraph to mean they had to invest in new equipment in order to produce highest quality lenses. If true, that explains a whole lot about the delay in 'Year of the Prime' lenses.

TBH I think there are 5 primes in various stages of development. I think Pentax has the design skill. I think capital investment is the bottleneck. I'd allow in those 5 primes there is a 20, 28 or 35, the 50, the 85 and a surprise. I'd also bet there is at least one f/4 zoom (70~300?). I can't imagine they'll spend resources on another APSc ultra wide beyond the DA15.

In the interview Pentax called the 50/1.4 a Reference Lens. That means they are making a statement of their design skill with a no-hold-barred lens. I expect the 85 will be similarly spec'ed. Then we'll see.

These are business decisions, made for reasons that go beyond what you or I think the priorities are.
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