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03-11-2017, 03:58 PM   #856
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QuoteOriginally posted by wed7 Quote
Please refer to the latest CP+ interview by Adam.
Oh, you mean the lens survey from last year done by Pentax Europe that they haven't completed evaluating yet. How do you know the underlying demand for anything, much less an UWA?

I believe I've laid out a case that Pentax is making rational. businesslike decisions. The altrenative is Ricoh Imaging is a group of benighted old Japanese men. Is that what you think?

03-11-2017, 04:02 PM   #857
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QuoteOriginally posted by wed7 Quote
Please refer to the latest CP+ interview by Adam.
Oh, you mean the lens survey from last year done by Pentax Europe that they haven't completed evaluating yet. How do you know the underlying demand for anything, much less an UWA?

I believe I've laid out a case that Pentax is making rational. businesslike decisions. The alternative is Ricoh Imaging is a group of benighted old Japanese men. Is that what you think?
03-11-2017, 04:02 PM   #858
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QuoteOriginally posted by wed7 Quote
Please refer to the latest CP+ interview by Adam.
Oh, you mean the lens survey from last year done by Pentax Europe that they haven't completed evaluating yet. How do you know the underlying demand for anything, much less an UWA?

I believe I've laid out a case that Pentax is making rational. businesslike decisions. The alternative is Ricoh Imaging is a group of benighted old Japanese men. Is that what you think?
03-11-2017, 04:19 PM - 2 Likes   #859
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QuoteOriginally posted by HopelessTogger Quote
Does Pentax really need an ultra wide prime?
Gasp.

QuoteOriginally posted by HopelessTogger Quote
Is this not covered by 3rd parties already as well as Pentax (DA 4/15 Ltd for crop)? Also some of the UWA zooms are pretty good, like the Sigma 8-16.

How about a fast 21mm for full frame?
Crop is well matured and still relatively modern. (though I think weather sealing/motorizing the DA primes and an updated 16-50 would be super)

Full Frame needs help on the lens front.

Of the ultrawides:
None of the 3rd parties are weather sealed from top to the rear. The IRIX comes close though.
None of the 3rd parties have autofocus. While not super useful on an ultra wide, it is a welcome addition.
None of the 3rd parties have Ricoh/Pentax coatings.

That said, I'm sorta (ok heavily) eyeballing just getting an Irix 15mm and being done with it. Well maybe later getting the Pentax 15-30mm.

20mm would be nice on FF. 16 even better imo! I just want it to be under 800 dollars and support filters.

But I'm not willing to wait years for a lens to MAYBE be launched.. I'll use what is out there. If what is eventually launched is defined (by me) as 'better' than whatever I'm using at the time, then I'll consider it though.

That said, having a full set of lenses from ultrawide to long telephoto made by OEM is a necessity to show Pentax (Ricoh) is committed and, (even if a 3rd party disappears tomorrow) Pentax will still have an option to meet our needs.

Oh and haha


Last edited by mee; 03-11-2017 at 04:40 PM.
03-11-2017, 04:47 PM   #860
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Oh, you mean the lens survey from last year done by Pentax Europe that they haven't completed evaluating yet. How do you know the underlying demand for anything, much less an UWA?

I believe I've laid out a case that Pentax is making rational. businesslike decisions. The altrenative is Ricoh Imaging is a group of benighted old Japanese men. Is that what you think?
I agree with you that Ricoh Imaging is being smart business wise.

If it is not too much to ask, how do you use your Pentax? What are your applications?
03-11-2017, 05:00 PM - 1 Like   #861
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QuoteOriginally posted by wed7 Quote
I agree with you that Ricoh Imaging is being smart business wise.

If it is not too much to ask, how do you use your Pentax? What are your applications?
Cityscape, Landscape when I am able and a lot of scanned film shooting. That is a function of where I am and what is available.

I use PSE and Lightroom.
03-11-2017, 05:46 PM   #862
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If possible, may I ask for a link of your work. Thank you.
03-11-2017, 07:59 PM   #863
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The aforementioned survey results will be interesting, if they ever see the light of day.

To return to the thread topic, though, while I can see the logic for progressing a 50mm lens as the first of the unifocals intended for the K-1, it is clearly a lens designed in the main for new users, not the legacy users for whom Ricoh said they were intending the K-1, in the first instance, That's not to say that some legacy users won't buy a copy, but many (me included) will be happy enough with their collections of existing 50s. So, that business decision is a bit of an enigma, but there is a certain amount of defensible logic to be gleaned from consideration of the circumstances, and one assumes the forecasters in Ricoh have closely examined the chicken entrails, and the cost planners have calculated accordingly.

The 85/1.4 addresses both legacy and new user groups, in my view. While the FA77 could be said to overlap the requirement for this FL neighbourhood, my observation is that there are probably more legacy users willing to fork out for a very good 85 than a similar 50. For particular categories of new users, I think it's a must.

What comes next is anybody's guess, but I'd be willing to suggest a fast 35mm and a moderately fast 20mm. Wider lenses will come later, if I'm reading this correctly. Few people working at the ultra-wide end will be bothered about AF, so I imagine Ricoh is happy leave those in the hands of the third-party makers, for the moment.

03-12-2017, 01:52 AM   #864
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
The aforementioned survey results will be interesting, if they ever see the light of day.

To return to the thread topic, though, while I can see the logic for progressing a 50mm lens as the first of the unifocals intended for the K-1, it is clearly a lens designed in the main for new users, not the legacy users for whom Ricoh said they were intending the K-1, in the first instance, That's not to say that some legacy users won't buy a copy, but many (me included) will be happy enough with their collections of existing 50s. So, that business decision is a bit of an enigma, but there is a certain amount of defensible logic to be gleaned from consideration of the circumstances, and one assumes the forecasters in Ricoh have closely examined the chicken entrails, and the cost planners have calculated accordingly.

The 85/1.4 addresses both legacy and new user groups, in my view. While the FA77 could be said to overlap the requirement for this FL neighbourhood, my observation is that there are probably more legacy users willing to fork out for a very good 85 than a similar 50. For particular categories of new users, I think it's a must.

What comes next is anybody's guess, but I'd be willing to suggest a fast 35mm and a moderately fast 20mm. Wider lenses will come later, if I'm reading this correctly. Few people working at the ultra-wide end will be bothered about AF, so I imagine Ricoh is happy leave those in the hands of the third-party makers, for the moment.
Nice analysis, how long do you think would it take before Ricoh-Pentax could deliver this into the market? Thank you.

If the wide angle primes would be really pushed out last (being the most difficult to produce), Ricoh-Pentax​ will help me spend less and concentrate on what I have.
03-12-2017, 05:58 AM   #865
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QuoteOriginally posted by wed7 Quote
Nice analysis, how long do you think would it take before Ricoh-Pentax could deliver this into the market? Thank you.

If the wide angle primes would be really pushed out last (being the most difficult to produce), Ricoh-Pentax​ will help me spend less and concentrate on what I have.
Thank you. I must admit that I'm a little baffled by the pace at which these unifocals are appearing. Obviously, the first two are intended for premium buyers, but their focal lengths are far from the most challenging, from a design point of view. It seems as if their optical design staff is very short on expertise or capacity, so I have no idea on when others might appear.
03-12-2017, 07:42 AM   #866
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
The aforementioned survey results will be interesting, if they ever see the light of day.

To return to the thread topic, though, while I can see the logic for progressing a 50mm lens as the first of the unifocals intended for the K-1, it is clearly a lens designed in the main for new users, not the legacy users for whom Ricoh said they were intending the K-1, in the first instance, That's not to say that some legacy users won't buy a copy, but many (me included) will be happy enough with their collections of existing 50s. So, that business decision is a bit of an enigma, but there is a certain amount of defensible logic to be gleaned from consideration of the circumstances, and one assumes the forecasters in Ricoh have closely examined the chicken entrails, and the cost planners have calculated accordingly.

The 85/1.4 addresses both legacy and new user groups, in my view. While the FA77 could be said to overlap the requirement for this FL neighbourhood, my observation is that there are probably more legacy users willing to fork out for a very good 85 than a similar 50. For particular categories of new users, I think it's a must.

What comes next is anybody's guess, but I'd be willing to suggest a fast 35mm and a moderately fast 20mm. Wider lenses will come later, if I'm reading this correctly. Few people working at the ultra-wide end will be bothered about AF, so I imagine Ricoh is happy leave those in the hands of the third-party makers, for the moment.
I'm in the boat of the the 85 versus the 50, since me and my Einsteins make money doing portrait work. Hopefully the wait isn't too bad. Then again, I just bought an FA*85 1.4 to whet my appetite, and it appears to be better than my 77 for that purpose.

Last edited by dcpropilot; 03-12-2017 at 07:48 AM.
03-12-2017, 07:55 AM - 2 Likes   #867
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Thank you. I must admit that I'm a little baffled by the pace at which these unifocals are appearing. Obviously, the first two are intended for premium buyers, but their focal lengths are far from the most challenging, from a design point of view. It seems as if their optical design staff is very short on expertise or capacity, so I have no idea on when others might appear.
Did you read the DPR interview of the Sigma CEO? He stated it took 2 years for each of their newer designs to reach store shelves. And that is from a company that is solely dedicated to releasing camera lenses. For Ricoh? These designs take no less time...

Some excerpts:

QuoteQuote:
You now make a mount adapter for Sony E-mount, but are you planning native support for the Sony E-mount in the future?

Yes, that’s our plan. Our plan is to develop full-frame lenses for Sony E mount, and in the future we will have more E mount lenses. But it takes time. Normally it takes about two years to develop one lens, sometimes three. So even if I start the process now, the lens might come out in two years time.
and on a different question their response:



QuoteQuote:
Over the past five years, we’ve actually been making fewer lenses, because we decreased the number of cheaper lenses we were producing. But we’ve expanded our manufacturing capacity, because the higher-end lenses use more glass. Cheaper lenses might use 10-15 elements, but these higher quality lenses use 15-20, sometimes even more elements. So more capacity is needed to make a single lens. We’ve actually invested massively in the past five years.
CP+ 2017 - Sigma interview: 'We?ve learned that some customers require exceptional lens performance': Digital Photography Review
03-12-2017, 07:59 AM - 1 Like   #868
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
What comes next is anybody's guess, but I'd be willing to suggest a fast 35mm and a moderately fast 20mm. Wider lenses will come later, if I'm reading this correctly. Few people working at the ultra-wide end will be bothered about AF, so I imagine Ricoh is happy leave those in the hands of the third-party makers, for the moment.
And a fast 135mm, 24mm amd 28mm lens.

That is work with the 50mm and 85mm from now till the end of 2020.
03-12-2017, 08:46 AM - 1 Like   #869
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
That is work with the 50mm and 85mm from now till the end of 2020.
They should not release more than one lens per year and offer those with a credit financing, what's blocking people to buy is the price, apsc shooter are used to buy multiple sub $500 and sub $1000 items. For a lot of customers, $900 is affordable and $1100 is way off budget. Easy example: buying a K1 is tOO expensive, but buying a K3 and a KP is fine.
03-12-2017, 08:46 AM   #870
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Did you read the DPR interview of the Sigma CEO? He stated it took 2 years for each of their newer designs to reach store shelves. And that is from a company that is solely dedicated to releasing camera lenses. For Ricoh? These designs take no less time...

Some excerpts:


and on a different question their response:




CP+ 2017 - Sigma interview: 'We?ve learned that some customers require exceptional lens performance': Digital Photography Review
Wow! 2 years per lens? It will be no less than 5 years to complete those Pentax primes on the roadmap. I hope Ricoh-Pentax could deliver faster. It is a tough call for the lens department. Unless Ricoh-Pentax could repeat rebranding the Tamron's. My wallet will be very thankful that I may no longer spend unecessarily for Pentax products, maybe when my desired lens will pops out according to Ricoh-Pentax's capacity. I wish them to succeed.
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