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04-08-2017, 06:06 AM   #961
ebk
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Ricoh isn't investing into Pentax.
gone: compact cameras, the k-01 and the q for exemple.
reading the last interview the Pentax top is thinking and again thinking and
evaluating, those things can't be sell.
if this goes on, the Pentax top is working down Pentax.

04-08-2017, 06:20 AM - 1 Like   #962
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Well currently Pentax has no "good" selling camera in the market. All models sell in limited numbers and some of them sell not enough. That is a big problem for future development of the brand. We will see if Ricoh has an opinion on that matter when new financial figures are reported on april 28th.
04-08-2017, 06:23 AM   #963
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QuoteOriginally posted by ebk Quote
Ricoh isn't investing into Pentax..
Well already there you are very wrong Dont talk about stuff you dont know anything about.
04-08-2017, 06:48 AM   #964
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It is going a little far afield, but I am surprised that Pentax is letting the q go by the wayside. It always seemed to sell well in Asia. Maybe it was just at a dead end with no new sensors on the horizon and no ability to increase sensor size with the same mount. But Nikon has also killed their V series of cameras and they had a lot more investment in it and it seemed that those cameras were pretty high performing. Companies just have to make hard decisions about what products and product lines have futures and what don't.

All this is pretty far afield. The biggest issues with Pentax right now probably have little to do with actual lens design and more to do with the fact that they have to get manufacturing processes up to the point that they can deliver consistent high quality performance lenses in sufficient quantities to satisfy the market. Hopefully once they release the DFA *50, the process for getting an 85 and, say, a DFA * 35 and 18 out the door will be a little smoother. But what they can't deal with as a company is a big flop on release -- decentering issues, auto focus issues, motor failures, etc. You get once chance to release a high quality lens and have it reviewed and then people move on.

Better get it right.

04-08-2017, 07:05 AM   #965
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It is going a little far afield, but I am surprised that Pentax is letting the q go by the wayside. It always seemed to sell well in Asia. Maybe it was just at a dead end with no new sensors on the horizon and no ability to increase sensor size with the same mount. But Nikon has also killed their V series of cameras and they had a lot more investment in it and it seemed that those cameras were pretty high performing. Companies just have to make hard decisions about what products and product lines have futures and what don't.

All this is pretty far afield. The biggest issues with Pentax right now probably have little to do with actual lens design and more to do with the fact that they have to get manufacturing processes up to the point that they can deliver consistent high quality performance lenses in sufficient quantities to satisfy the market. Hopefully once they release the DFA *50, the process for getting an 85 and, say, a DFA * 35 and 18 out the door will be a little smoother. But what they can't deal with as a company is a big flop on release -- decentering issues, auto focus issues, motor failures, etc. You get once chance to release a high quality lens and have it reviewed and then people move on.

Better get it right.
I always thought the Q was just a low test cost platform for mirrorless technology. I never saw it as a long-term system. I think Ricoh needs to develop a body like the Sony A99 without the mirror. Basically a mirrorless K-mount.
04-08-2017, 07:18 AM - 2 Likes   #966
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Hehe, i can always bring it forward
I like your attitude. Here, I'll share the basics;

1. DA 28mm f2.8. This is the every man prime, based on F 28 f2.8 optics, with a few modern additions. DC or PLM focusing, I don't care, just not screw drive anymore as those days seem done on new lenses. A lot of plastic in the build but maybe with a metal mount just to seem a little less chintzy. Market it as a crop lens but it needs to cover the full frame image circle; everyone in the know will figure it out. Crop guys finally get their lens that acts like a 43mm on full frame, full guys get a pretty wide prime, everyone is happy. Think $250 street price target in the USA works?

2. D-FA 18mm f3.2 Limited. Style it like the current D-FA Macro or the 43mm Special, you know, like the designers were thinking classic with a touch of Leica. Built in hood like the DA 15. All mod-cons; WR or AW rating, silent focus, quick shift, and 49mm filter/cap if possible. This has to be bragged about with a couple really good advertisment videos that people can share. The kind of lens you grab and put in with maybe an FA 35 or 43, and a DA 70 or FA 77, and have a three lens kit that is small, fast, and high quality. Like if you want to carry a K-1 or KP to a city for a day of street shooting, out into nature for landscapes, and then to some area of armed conflict where dirt and rain is going to be encountered and shrugged off.

Thoughts?
04-08-2017, 07:19 AM   #967
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't think so. I just think that for Pentax increasing sales too much could be just as dangerous for them as having inadequate sales. They are trying for slow, steady growth and by all accounts that is working. But two to three high end lenses is probably their max for a given year. (We'll see at the end of the year where they are at with these).
They are in a tight situation then. Because if they release lenses too quickly it could be dangerous for them in having inadequate sales (as you say), but if they release lenses too slowly it could be dangerous for them in having inadequate sales!

Either way it is, if they are continually as slow, I think a chunk of their chunk of market slowly dries away as people either tire of waiting or (in the case of newcomers) are initially wooed by the already fully developed lens lineup by other camera manufacturers.

There is a point when being too conservative backfires. I'm not sure we're there, but I hope Ricoh gets it right for all our sakes.

There is a common statement made at PF that 'Be of good cheer, Ricoh have a plan.' That sounds great. But so did Kodak and where did that get them? My point there is corporations do have plans, but those are a series of choices made by humans who are capable of making mistakes. We should all be aware of the state of the market and thus cautious to it.

Unless, of course, what is there already meets your needs and you're willing to ride those products into the ground. Then there is no issue whatsoever.
04-08-2017, 07:30 AM   #968
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
They are in a tight situation then. Because if they release lenses too quickly it could be dangerous for them in having inadequate sales (as you say), but if they release lenses too slowly it could be dangerous for them in having inadequate sales!

Either way it is, if they are continually as slow, I think a chunk of their chunk of market slowly dries away as people either tire of waiting or (in the case of newcomers) are initially wooed by the already fully developed lens lineup by other camera manufacturers.

There is a point when being too conservative backfires. I'm not sure we're there, but I hope Ricoh gets it right for all our sakes.

There is a common statement made at PF that 'Be of good cheer, Ricoh have a plan.' That sounds great. But so did Kodak and where did that get them? My point there is corporations do have plans, but those are a series of choices made by humans who are capable of making mistakes. We should all be aware of the state of the market and thus cautious to it.

Unless, of course, what is there already meets your needs and you're willing to ride those products into the ground. Then there is no issue whatsoever.
I suppose.

I think we need to be honest and realize that f2.8 zooms are what make the current full frame market tick and that the primes are gravy. Currently Pentax has 15-200mm covered with very nice f2.8 zooms. They still have FA limiteds. The holes are there, but they aren't as big as the nay sayers on the forums think, but they do need to be filled.

If I have a concern, it has more to do with the relatively slow rate of release, but as I said above, I would rather see Pentax release lenses slowly but have the releases go without a hitch than see them hurry lenses out the door to see problems come in after the fact. We don't need Pentaxians to be beta testers.

From a camera standpoint, Ricoh has been much busier than they have on the glass front and they have gotten a number of very nice bodies out the door targeting different segments of the market. I do think a K-01 with more traditional ergonomics and styling (and better performance) is in order, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

04-08-2017, 07:48 AM - 2 Likes   #969
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QuoteOriginally posted by ebk Quote
Ricoh isn't investing into Pentax.
gone: compact cameras, the k-01 and the q for exemple.
reading the last interview the Pentax top is thinking and again thinking and
evaluating, those things can't be sell.
if this goes on, the Pentax top is working down Pentax.

They seem to be investing into what Pentax is all about: (D)SLR's and lenses. Pentax is THE japanese SLR maker; making the first japanese SLR and was for years a SLR only camera company. Ricoh is focusing on Pentax core values.

---------- Post added 04-08-17 at 04:51 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It is going a little far afield, but I am surprised that Pentax is letting the q go by the wayside. It always seemed to sell well in Asia. Maybe it was just at a dead end with no new sensors on the horizon and no ability to increase sensor size with the same mount. .

I'm not sure it is on the wayside. Possibly only a change of priorities with FF and 645 and all that....
04-08-2017, 07:52 AM   #970
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I suppose.

I think we need to be honest and realize that f2.8 zooms are what make the current full frame market tick and that the primes are gravy. Currently Pentax has 15-200mm covered with very nice f2.8 zooms. They still have FA limiteds. The holes are there, but they aren't as big as the nay sayers on the forums think, but they do need to be filled.

If I have a concern, it has more to do with the relatively slow rate of release, but as I said above, I would rather see Pentax release lenses slowly but have the releases go without a hitch than see them hurry lenses out the door to see problems come in after the fact. We don't need Pentaxians to be beta testers.

From a camera standpoint, Ricoh has been much busier than they have on the glass front and they have gotten a number of very nice bodies out the door targeting different segments of the market. I do think a K-01 with more traditional ergonomics and styling (and better performance) is in order, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Actually, the most common lens used on FF are the kit f/4 lenses (24-105 and 24-120). The f/2.8 standard zooms are more upscale and certainly get a lot of usage too. I think Ricoh launched those first because Tamron had the designs available.. and Ricoh considers the K-1 a premium camera.

They only gave us a 28-105 kit because they know not everyone is going to buy a 1200 dollar standard f2/.8 zoom (who wants a zoom).

I think we all want Pentax to release lenses carefully and successfully. The point I was making was where is that line in being either too slow or too fast? And, depending where that line is, where is Pentax at currently? That and what do we consider 'successful'?

Ricoh have always been quicker with launching bodies though.. because those are easier since they rely on their previous generation of bodies.

I think the K-01 is/was a bad way.. you give up the one leading aspect to DSLRs (the viewfinder) and do not gain the one leading aspect to mirrorless (lack of mirrorbox/size). It was just an awkward camera, designed on opposites day.

If Ricoh branded a Ricoh mirrorless with an EVF and a new mount, THAT would be interesting imo. But I think the physical design of the actual K mount is not advantageous for mirrorless. They'd need to reboot entirely. That's a risky endeavor from a highly risk adverse company!
04-08-2017, 07:54 AM - 1 Like   #971
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote

2. D-FA 18mm f3.2 Limited. Style it like the current D-FA Macro or the 43mm Special, you know, like the designers were thinking classic with a touch of Leica. Built in hood like the DA 15. All mod-cons; WR or AW rating, silent focus, quick shift, and 49mm filter/cap if possible. This has to be bragged about with a couple really good advertisment videos that people can share. The kind of lens you grab and put in with
Such a lens would be big. There already exist an K 18/3.5. It is not small. With todays optics it would be at least as large as the 50/1.4 but with larger filter mount. 49mm is an impossibility.

---------- Post added 04-08-17 at 04:55 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Either way it is, if they are continually as slow, I think a chunk of their chunk of market slowly dries away as people either tire of waiting or (in the case of newcomers) are initially wooed by the already fully developed lens lineup by other camera manufacturers.
We have heard this for at least 35 years....
04-08-2017, 08:00 AM   #972
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Probably true about the 49mm cap. I wonder how the hypothetical lens I described would compare in size to the FA 20. Probably a bit apples to oranges. Still, I don't know if I would really want "modern optics" if that means an extremely corrected, flat image, as those lack 3d pop / pixie dust / etc.
04-08-2017, 08:15 AM   #973
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
Thoughts?
They have both a current and future plans Cant share But i bring forwards all ideas
04-08-2017, 08:37 AM   #974
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I am just stirring up the issue. :P Whatever path Ricoh takes, I'll simply buy an item if I wanted and can afford it,
04-08-2017, 09:03 AM   #975
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
We have heard this for at least 35 years....
And I've heard that remark at least 7 years since I started frequenting this site. Actually, these entire discussions have been circulating for eons.. yet we still have them.

Look at the state of affairs.. Now major 3rd parties have said hasta la vista in the past 5 years. That can't be good for growing.

So I don't think they grow too much. Ricoh/Pentax stays niche.. really niche. Almost Hasselblad niche. Actually, I personally wonder if Sigma would like Pentax to fold. One less camera mount out there and one less band of customers asking for lenses in that mount. Yet no one here can, with certainty, state what happens to any of these companies years out.

5 years ago Samsung had 12% of the digital camera market. 12 percent!!!! Today, they've disbanded that division entirely. Gone.

Pentax held 1.62% then. I think, today, they are around 5-6%. So they've grown, but I suspect that growth is largely from absorption of the customers of failed companies and products. It is fish eat fish out there.

That is to say, it hasn't been for revolutionary changes on Ricoh's part. There aren't many to make at this point... the market has matured.

So the question is.. Who stays and who goes? The guy interviewed, in 2013, in this article claimed Nikon would be toast in 2018 Point, shoot, collapse: Why big camera companies are the next BlackBerry | Financial Post So there is and has been a lot of uncertainty in the camera market. Only until the market bottoms out will we see the winners and the losers.

But that doesn't matter to the budding photographer who just wants a 'pro' camera and some 'pro' lenses. They just want a solid working camera that outputs sharp images through lenses that perform reliably at the focal lengths they desire. I'm sure some market consideration can and does take place, but largely I suspect not.. which is why it matters to have a competitive lineup of lenses and cameras in a mature market of lenses and cameras. The consumer today expects instant-now delivery. Pentax seems to go against the grain of that with the old 'When it is ready, it is ready' mentality.

It is also why I think Pentax stays tiny... but doesn't disappear entirely.. so long as they stay on the correct side of the 'conservative' line in a very dynamic setting.
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