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05-01-2017, 12:54 AM   #1126
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QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
page 75, let's keep it simple, where is the 1.4/50?
it is on the roadmap ?

05-01-2017, 01:47 AM   #1127
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Ummmm....so any word on release date?
You need to wait another half year:
QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man:
It's possible that the 50 is in target end of this year and 85 spring/summer next year.
05-01-2017, 06:20 AM   #1128
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
You need to wait another half year: QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man: It's possible that the 50 is in target end of this year and 85 spring/summer next year.
I guess this really will be the year of THE prime.
05-01-2017, 06:55 AM   #1129
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QuoteOriginally posted by rangercarp Quote
I guess this really will be the year of THE prime.
Yes. It appears that Ricoh has very limited resources when it comes to lens design. One lens per year is about all they seem to be able to get into production. Hopefully we don't have to wait another year for the 85mm and then another year for the 35mm. Contrast this to the new Fuji GFX system where they will release 6 professional grade lenses this year.

05-01-2017, 07:46 AM   #1130
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Contrast this to the new Fuji GFX system where they will release 6 professional grade lenses this year.
Unfortunately for us, they are bigger than Ricoh....
05-01-2017, 11:05 AM - 1 Like   #1131
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...and, fortunately for them, they have a cash cow named Instax.
05-01-2017, 11:34 AM   #1132
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Contrast this to the new Fuji GFX system where they will release 6 professional grade lenses this year.
I wonder if Fugi will continue to make lenses for Hasselblad? They probably have long term contracts in place, but it seems they are in a unique position to put the hurt on a competitor by disrupting their lens supply.
05-01-2017, 12:32 PM   #1133
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QuoteOriginally posted by rangercarp Quote
I wonder if Fugi will continue to make lenses for Hasselblad? They probably have long term contracts in place, but it seems they are in a unique position to put the hurt on a competitor by disrupting their lens supply.
Hassy has been bleeding cash to the point they had to sell out to the Chinese. Their market share has fallen to the point of being irrelevant. Fuji also makes all of the Sony HDTV professional broadcast lenses Fujinon Sony Broadcast Video Lenses | Buy, Compare & Review | Adorama & this little 4K gem here Fujinon UA80X9BESM UA Series 80x Zoom 2/3" UA80X9BESM-S35

China will pump a lot of money into Hassy, but I think they are a dead brand. Fuji is going to dominate MF. Fuji has already mentioned a Sony 100MP MF sensor that they have been designing the current lenses for. If Fuji can get the AF where it needs to be the GFX line will be extremely successful.

05-01-2017, 12:59 PM   #1134
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Yes and No....GFX has attracted attention but some of Fuji's regulars(on the forums) have tried it and decided X system suits them better.MF produces great images but its not for everyone.....Fuji doesn't make the Hassy X1D lenses.
05-01-2017, 01:40 PM   #1135
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Yes. It appears that Ricoh has very limited resources when it comes to lens design. One lens per year is about all they seem to be able to get into production. Hopefully we don't have to wait another year for the 85mm and then another year for the 35mm. Contrast this to the new Fuji GFX system where they will release 6 professional grade lenses this year.
If Ricoh has sufficient confidence in the K-mount, they can always contract some optical design and production to independent makers, without necessarily just rebadging existing designs, if in-house resources aren't adequate. Of the possible partners, Sigma and Tamron seem busy enough, but there hasn't been a great deal of movement from Cosina or Tokina recently, unless they're busy designing lenses for rebranding by others.

Trickling out one premium lens per year is all well and good, but they really need to push out a line of less-costly optics at a greater rate. Ricoh had three of their own designs available for the launch of the K-1, aside from the two Tamron re-badges, so I don't understand their hesitation in this area, especially as the budget 28-105 has been so well-received.
05-01-2017, 06:38 PM - 1 Like   #1136
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote

Trickling out one premium lens per year is all well and good, but they really need to push out a line of less-costly optics at a greater rate.
Consumer products = death, premium products = survival.

That's what Sony, Canon and Nikon are finding. Pentax is already in that niche space.

Sony's sales have dropped yet again, they're rebooting with the mortgage-your-house A9 and G Series lenses.
05-01-2017, 09:00 PM   #1137
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Consumer products = death, premium products = survival.

That's what Sony, Canon and Nikon are finding. Pentax is already in that niche space.

Sony's sales have dropped yet again, they're rebooting with the mortgage-your-house A9 and G Series lenses.
I understand what you're saying there, Ian. Nonetheless, without a comprehensive existing range of lenses for the K-1, releasing only premium lenses at such a slow pace is going to limit sales of the K-1 and its successor. What do you reckon the sales of the 28-105 have been, in comparison with the 24-70, say? With the D-FA* 50, they have consumer options available already, with the FA50 and the DA*55, at a push. I'm not sure the FA77 Ltd could count as a consumer option to the D-FA*85. I've seen comments elsewhere already that the K-1 lacks good landscape lenses (which I'm not convinced is entirely valid, but perceptions are what sells). I'd have been happier with two wider-than-24 unifocals on the road map, one premium and the other not, but Ricoh seems to think that their existing wide zooms will keep everyone happy. Maybe they're right.

If one lens a year is all their design office can manage, they must be meeting in a cupboard.
05-01-2017, 10:13 PM - 4 Likes   #1138
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Ricoh has to be careful about releasing these lenses (the three star primes), because they are likely to make a loss on them for quite a while. Given that the number of K-1 users must still be in the high tens of thousands, I would assume that any premium prime lens at $1,500 or above is going to be doing sales in the hundreds. These are kind of lenses you have to have to make the system complete, but ones that you have to absorb a loss on in the hope that the growth of the system as a whole will make up for it. Canon has said something similar to this in interviews, and given how much bigger the Canon market is, it will be much more risky for Ricoh.

So I think Ricoh will be releasing these over some times alongside more consumer-oriented lenses that they have more chance of selling in quantity. Even though it was just put on the roadmap, I wouldn't be surprised if the DFA 70-300-ish lens came out before some of these primes. I also think we will see updates of some DA lenses with PLM or DC. The PLM motor seems to be very effective in the 55-300, so it only makes sense to use it in more DA lenses, and there are massively more APS-C users to sell to.

I think Winder is being a bit unkind to say that Ricoh only has the capability to make one serious lens a year. The assumption is that Fuji is going to deliver everything on the roadmap within the year, while Ricoh is just going to deliver one item. I guess that means he simply trusts Fuji more than Ricoh, which is a shame. The record doesn't support that. Looking back over the past ten or so years, Pentax/Ricoh has released around 4 lenses a year on average, which is similar to Olympus, Fuji, Panasonic, if somewhat behind Canon, Nikon and Sony. Ricoh has six lenses on their FF roadmap too, but when you look at past form, the timelines tend to be vague, and the road mapped items tend to be mixed in with surprise updates as well. I think this is the problem for Ricoh. Their vagueness doesn't look good to Pentaxians, and they tend to fret about what hasn't been introduced, rather than appreciating what has.

As for whether Ricoh is delivering serious lenses, Here are the lenses they have delivered in the past few years.

2016 - HD PENTAX-DA 55-300mm F4.5-6.3 ED PLM WR RE
2016 - HD PENTAX-D FA 15-30mm F2.8 ED SDM WR
2016 - HD PENTAX-D FA 28-105mm F3.5-5.6 ED DC WR
2015 - HD Pentax-D FA645 35mm F3.5 AL [IF]
2015 - HD Pentax D FA 24-70mm F2.8 ED SDM WR
2015 - Pentax DA 18-50mm F4.5-5.6 DC WR RE & HD Pentax DA 18-50mm F4.5-5.6 DC WR RE
2015 - HD Pentax D FA* 70-200mm F2.8ED DC AW
2015 - HD Pentax D FA 150-450mm F4.5-5.6 ED DC AW
2014 - HD Pentax DA 16-85mm F3.5-5.6 ED DC WR
2014 - HD Pentax-DA645 28-45mm F4.5ED AW SR
2014 - HD Pentax DA AF 1.4X AW Rear Converter

I would say the majority of those lenses are suitable for pro work, and all of them were valuable additions in one way or another. So this is the reality I see, and we are just entering May. There is plenty of time for Ricoh to make good on some of their published plans (I hesitate to use the word "promises", because it is quite clear from the wording on the roadmap that they are not making promises), and plenty of time for surprises.
05-01-2017, 11:05 PM - 1 Like   #1139
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
I understand what you're saying there, Ian. Nonetheless, without a comprehensive existing range of lenses for the K-1, releasing only premium lenses at such a slow pace is going to limit sales of the K-1 and its successor. .
But that's the tradeoff. Paying for six lenses to be developed and produced at once may take ten years for the project to get into the black, and a company may be insolvent by then. A board would be irresponsible to sign off on such a project in a declining camera market.

We live in a world where inventory is a no-no. It's capital tied up, waiting desperately to be sold. Warehouses should be empty, is the philosophy - production runs are short.

So lenses have to be carefully selected. In the Canikon world you might be hoping to get customers from, zooms rule. And Pentax have those, new.

In Pentax Land, us old farts have a comprehensive range of existing primes going back to 1975 and earlier. As the owner of the FA31, DA*55 and FA77 it's unlikely I'll buy any of the three primes on the roadmap in the next decade.

It's especially true of the Q and 645. Making six lenses for each with a small owner base would be a financial worry hanging over the whole company, threatening all other products, until they hopefully sold enough to get out of the red. A Japanese executive couldn't possibly give a thumb up.


QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote

If one lens a year is all their design office can manage, they must be meeting in a cupboard.
Well, I think you're right, Rob

I reckon it could well be Masakazu Saori and some assistants now, making do with the budget Ricoh have assigned them.

The fifty will be interesting, because its performance will be expected to exceed older, smaller designs. It will be a departure from the Limiteds (Saori's previous primes were the DA21 and DA70), and it will pioneer techniques that will be used to make the 85mm and any later lenses.

Last edited by clackers; 05-01-2017 at 11:16 PM.
05-02-2017, 12:13 AM - 1 Like   #1140
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50/1.4 is the first prime lens for the K-mount designed by Ricoh Imaging team. First prime in 6 years!*
If they issue it this year, it will be a reason to celebrate.

In the same period, Fujifilm issued 13 prime lenses.

Lesson? It is about time Ricoh Imaging focuses on the K-mount for Pentax and ditches everything that distracts.

(*1.8/50 was readying before acquisition).
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