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05-02-2017, 12:21 AM   #1141
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How "fair" of you to start counting before Ricoh Imaging existed, less alone giving them time to actually design and launch a lens (2-3 years, according to Sigma - but that's without a disruptive sellout process and without having to sort out production issues). You manage to ignore the DA 560mm, but also have your "6" years; nicely done!

05-02-2017, 12:47 AM   #1142
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Maths can get distorted in the Never Never, most communication is by carrier pigeon...they only just came out of the film era too.






Maybe Fuji are doing a few things correctly, 24 X mount lenses since 2012(2 are TCs)


5 MF lenses in 2017 with another "promised".


Only 2 are plastic mounts and they are optically pretty good(nice price too).

Last edited by surfar; 05-02-2017 at 01:09 AM.
05-02-2017, 07:00 AM   #1143
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
Ricoh has to be careful about releasing these lenses (the three star primes), because they are likely to make a loss on them for quite a while. Given that the number of K-1 users must still be in the high tens of thousands, I would assume that any premium prime lens at $1,500 or above is going to be doing sales in the hundreds. These are kind of lenses you have to have to make the system complete, but ones that you have to absorb a loss on in the hope that the growth of the system as a whole will make up for it. Canon has said something similar to this in interviews, and given how much bigger the Canon market is, it will be much more risky for Ricoh.

So I think Ricoh will be releasing these over some times alongside more consumer-oriented lenses that they have more chance of selling in quantity. Even though it was just put on the roadmap, I wouldn't be surprised if the DFA 70-300-ish lens came out before some of these primes. I also think we will see updates of some DA lenses with PLM or DC. The PLM motor seems to be very effective in the 55-300, so it only makes sense to use it in more DA lenses, and there are massively more APS-C users to sell to.

I think Winder is being a bit unkind to say that Ricoh only has the capability to make one serious lens a year. The assumption is that Fuji is going to deliver everything on the roadmap within the year, while Ricoh is just going to deliver one item. I guess that means he simply trusts Fuji more than Ricoh, which is a shame. The record doesn't support that. Looking back over the past ten or so years, Pentax/Ricoh has released around 4 lenses a year on average, which is similar to Olympus, Fuji, Panasonic, if somewhat behind Canon, Nikon and Sony. Ricoh has six lenses on their FF roadmap too, but when you look at past form, the timelines tend to be vague, and the road mapped items tend to be mixed in with surprise updates as well. I think this is the problem for Ricoh. Their vagueness doesn't look good to Pentaxians, and they tend to fret about what hasn't been introduced, rather than appreciating what has.

As for whether Ricoh is delivering serious lenses, Here are the lenses they have delivered in the past few years.

2016 - HD PENTAX-DA 55-300mm F4.5-6.3 ED PLM WR RE
2016 - HD PENTAX-D FA 15-30mm F2.8 ED SDM WR
2016 - HD PENTAX-D FA 28-105mm F3.5-5.6 ED DC WR
2015 - HD Pentax-D FA645 35mm F3.5 AL [IF]
2015 - HD Pentax D FA 24-70mm F2.8 ED SDM WR
2015 - Pentax DA 18-50mm F4.5-5.6 DC WR RE & HD Pentax DA 18-50mm F4.5-5.6 DC WR RE
2015 - HD Pentax D FA* 70-200mm F2.8ED DC AW
2015 - HD Pentax D FA 150-450mm F4.5-5.6 ED DC AW
2014 - HD Pentax DA 16-85mm F3.5-5.6 ED DC WR
2014 - HD Pentax-DA645 28-45mm F4.5ED AW SR
2014 - HD Pentax DA AF 1.4X AW Rear Converter

I would say the majority of those lenses are suitable for pro work, and all of them were valuable additions in one way or another. So this is the reality I see, and we are just entering May. There is plenty of time for Ricoh to make good on some of their published plans (I hesitate to use the word "promises", because it is quite clear from the wording on the roadmap that they are not making promises), and plenty of time for surprises.
A nice line of lenses. The problem is focus. These lenses are for k-crop. K-ff and 645. So all in all there just a few new lenses for each system.

I think that K-1 maybe reached 50k units and not likely more.
05-02-2017, 07:11 AM - 1 Like   #1144
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I think that K-1 maybe reached 50k units and not likely more.
I guess the idea of the K-1 selling is a personal affront to you.

05-02-2017, 07:15 AM - 1 Like   #1145
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I guess the idea of the K-1 selling is a personal affront to you.
No it's your issue for not seeing things as they are. Sales for Ricoh-Imaging are just to low to have reached more units moving on K-1, unless there where last year no sales for aps-c and Theta. With a year sales of 30 billion yen one can't push 100k units K-1 with lenses unless you give them away for free.
05-02-2017, 08:10 AM   #1146
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No, you insisting on guesstimating low sales on the K-1 is definitely not my issue.
05-02-2017, 10:31 AM   #1147
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
.Fuji doesn't make the Hassy X1D lenses.
I did not realize this. Do you know who is making the X1D lenses?
05-02-2017, 11:27 AM - 1 Like   #1148
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QuoteOriginally posted by rangercarp Quote
Do you know who is making the X1D lenses?
Nittoh Nittoh Inc.

05-02-2017, 11:47 AM   #1149
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Nittoh Nittoh Inc.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
05-02-2017, 12:34 PM   #1150
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
I understand what you're saying there, Ian. Nonetheless, without a comprehensive existing range of lenses for the K-1, releasing only premium lenses at such a slow pace is going to limit sales of the K-1 and its successor.
It's good if the K1 does not sell so much because it's a discounted camera with the plan to recover profit by selling expensive lenses. If those already existing DFA15-30, DFA24-70, DFA*70-200 and DFA150-450 aren't selling much, it is very understandable that Ricoh imaging currently have a wait and see approach. The lens that's not excuse is the DFA*70-200: this lens is stunning, how many purchased it? I would like to know.
05-02-2017, 12:48 PM   #1151
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Nittoh Nittoh Inc.
Thanks Dino, saved me a search of where I got the info.




QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
the DFA*70-200: this lens is stunning, how many purchased it? I would like to know.

Yes, i'll own up to buying it!


It was worth the weight...ha ha
05-02-2017, 12:51 PM   #1152
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
It's good if the K1 does not sell so much because it's a discounted camera with the plan to recover profit by selling expensive lenses. If those already existing DFA15-30, DFA24-70, DFA*70-200 and DFA150-450 aren't selling much, it is very understandable that Ricoh imaging currently have a wait and see approach. The lens that's not excuse is the DFA*70-200: this lens is stunning, how many purchased it? I would like to know.
With only 5 entry's in the serie number place there is no way to tell. Looks like 3.500 units in the numbers, but I guess a lot more, since this lens is also very wanted for aps-c.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-serial-number-database/?do=viewserials&id=554
05-02-2017, 09:52 PM   #1153
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
50/1.4 is the first prime lens for the K-mount designed by Ricoh Imaging team. First prime in 6 years!*
If they issue it this year, it will be a reason to celebrate.

In the same period, Fujifilm issued 13 prime lenses.

Lesson? It is about time Ricoh Imaging focuses on the K-mount for Pentax and ditches everything that distracts.

(*1.8/50 was readying before acquisition).
1.8/50 is nothing but an M/F/FA 50/1.7 anyway....
05-03-2017, 09:38 AM   #1154
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The lens that's not excuse is the DFA*70-200: this lens is stunning, how many purchased it? I would like to know.
Skipped it, I'm waiting for the primes. still I found a used DFA15-30 and betrayed my "no more zoom" policy.
05-03-2017, 11:05 AM   #1155
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The lens that's not excuse is the DFA*70-200: this lens is stunning, how many purchased it? I would like to know.

I have sold almost all my primes and aps-c stuff to simplify my kit and to raise money.
I have settled on the 15-30mm and the 70-200mm, along with the DA 50mm f1.7 which I will replace once the DFA 50mm comes along.
Anyway, from an IQ standpoint, those lenses do a great job of replacing every prime lens in their respective ranges. Yes, you do lose some speed and A LOT of portability...but that is photography, choosing which compromises you can live with.

I have no regrets
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