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07-21-2017, 06:24 AM   #1306
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
Nikon has so many things rumored for announcements, d820, d760 and the new mirrorless system they are building. I wonder what will be announced first)
Another rumor?

07-21-2017, 06:36 AM - 1 Like   #1307
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QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
I wonder what will be announced first
Another "IAMRecalled" event
07-22-2017, 05:40 AM   #1308
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Is this thread about the new DFA 50 at all any more? Maybe it could be paused until more info becomes available? :P
07-22-2017, 06:02 AM   #1309
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobbotron Quote
Is this thread about the new DFA 50 at all any more? Maybe it could be paused until more info becomes available? :P
We could use a good pauze......

07-23-2017, 08:04 AM - 1 Like   #1310
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So I got out my Pentax-F 50mm f/1.4 and then I got out my Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4 and then I looked again at the pictures of the someday coming DFA 50mm f/1.4. And wondered to myself, "Why is this new lens so big?" What is different with this new lens that requires it to be so much larger than the older 50mm lenses? Is it because it is made for digital? Because it is made for 36mp and more? Because it has a lens motor? Because the ability to pixel peep now means sharp across the whole frame is the new standard? Or something else? Why would a photographer buy this lens over the (for example) the DA 50mm f/1.8 that gets a 9.3 rating in the database and weighs only 122gm?

Just curious.................
07-23-2017, 08:22 AM   #1311
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
So I got out my Pentax-F 50mm f/1.4 and then I got out my Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4 and then I looked again at the pictures of the someday coming DFA 50mm f/1.4. And wondered to myself, "Why is this new lens so big?" What is different with this new lens that requires it to be so much larger than the older 50mm lenses? Is it because it is made for digital? Because it is made for 36mp and more? Because it has a lens motor? Because the ability to pixel peep now means sharp across the whole frame is the new standard? Or something else? Why would a photographer buy this lens over the (for example) the DA 50mm f/1.8 that gets a 9.3 rating in the database and weighs only 122gm?

Just curious.................
Probably test chart numbers, clearing up the last little bit of CA and fringing that happen very infrequently with the mentioned glass, so infrequently it begs the question, wouldn't you rather just live with it? Just look at all the folks who claim the Sigma 30 1.4 is better than the 31 ltd. (even though the ways in which the 31 is better have been clearly demonstrated with comparison photos.) It's probably going to be something along the Sigma lines. Lens designers gone mad. If they can find a way to eliminate a little bit of CA they'll go for, even if it adds a pound and a half to the lens.

It's pretty clear, the old Pentax design philosophy, "Lenses designed for the way people take pictures, not for the test charts" died when Jun Hirakawa was fired by Hoya. He was made an example just in case anyone else had delusions of following the old Pentax design philosophy. The new lenses are closer to the Sigma design philosophy than the old Pentax philosophy, without the "Pushing the limits" focal lengths and aperture radicalism of Sigma. Lenses like the 150-600 and 18-35 1.8 are just so far out of the Pentax mindset it's disconcerting. Pentax is starting to out weigh Sigma, without the eye catching out front focal lengths.

The good thing is, lenses from the day when Pentax was out front in their areas of expertise still hold up today.

Given choice, DFA 150-450 or 31 and 77 limited, personally, I'd probably go with the older glass. Especially since I can buy a 150-600 for and D3400 for cheaper. I suspect Pentax is counting on that. New glass for the 2017 version of hot shot, new higher resolution rendition, while still selling the classics to those with the old Pentax sensibilities.

If you are an older Pentax user, I suspect these new lenses (except for the DFA 28-105) may not be for you. The DFA 28-105 being the crumb they tossed us old guys to get us into a K-1. But still more conservative than other companies who have available 24-105s.

Face if, Pentax have become the old fuddy duddies of the camera world. But looking at the K-1 you have to say, maybe that's' not a bad thing.

Last edited by normhead; 07-23-2017 at 08:28 AM.
07-23-2017, 08:24 AM   #1312
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
So I got out my Pentax-F 50mm f/1.4 and then I got out my Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4 and then I looked again at the pictures of the someday coming DFA 50mm f/1.4. And wondered to myself, "Why is this new lens so big?" What is different with this new lens that requires it to be so much larger than the older 50mm lenses? Is it because it is made for digital? Because it is made for 36mp and more? Because it has a lens motor? Because the ability to pixel peep now means sharp across the whole frame is the new standard? Or something else? Why would a photographer buy this lens over the (for example) the DA 50mm f/1.8 that gets a 9.3 rating in the database and weighs only 122gm?

Just curious.................
It is a combination of things. Putting the AF motor in the lens adds a good bit over manual focus or screw drive. CA (purple fringing) are not a problem for film, but they are for digital. A lot of corrective elements need to be used. You also need the image projected onto the sensor to be as flat as possible. Then there is the build quality expectations of premium glass. Manufacturers are also designing lenses for the future. Sony has a +/- 70MP FF sensor that we should see pretty soon. Ricoh is probably designing for a 100MP FF sensor. At 100MP a FF sensor can use binning to combine 4 pixels (RGGB) into a 25MP image and get the effects of pixel shift with a single exposure.

One of the articles on curved sensors that was published recently claimed that 1/3 of the glass used in a modern lens was corrective.
07-23-2017, 08:32 AM   #1313
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
So I got out my Pentax-F 50mm f/1.4 and then I got out my Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4 and then I looked again at the pictures of the someday coming DFA 50mm f/1.4. And wondered to myself, "Why is this new lens so big?" What is different with this new lens that requires it to be so much larger than the older 50mm lenses? Is it because it is made for digital? Because it is made for 36mp and more? Because it has a lens motor? Because the ability to pixel peep now means sharp across the whole frame is the new standard? Or something else? Why would a photographer buy this lens over the (for example) the DA 50mm f/1.8 that gets a 9.3 rating in the database and weighs only 122gm?
If you compare the Zeiss 85 Otus, the Batis 85 F1.8, the Sony 85 1.4 GM, and the Samyang 85 1.4, there is more difference in size/price/weight than difference in IQ... all things being relative: the "acceptably sharp" depends on expectations. I guess there is a market for someone wanting close to medium format image quality but spend less, in that case, higher quality lenses can help get one format get closer to the larger format.

07-23-2017, 08:35 AM   #1314
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
One of the articles on curved sensors that was published recently claimed that 1/3 of the glass used in a modern lens was corrective.
I'm almost surprised it's that low. If you think of a simple lens then expand to look at a modern lens, everything but the front element is corrective, correcting for some element of modern camera design, like fixed registration distances etc. A view camera can use much simpler lenses just because it changes it's registration distance to acommodate different focal lengths. A DSLR wants them all to be the same. Then you start getting to aberration control.
07-23-2017, 09:01 AM - 1 Like   #1315
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
snip snip snip... clearing up the last little bit of CA and fringing that happen very infrequently with the mentioned glass, so infrequently it begs the question, wouldn't you rather just live with it? snip snip snip
Yeah I don't know about all that. My M50 1.4 is an all night fringe party when run wide open in the wrong situation. DA50 1.8 seems much better, DA*55 also seems very excellent at not doing the purple & green fringe thing that the older 50 1.4's did.

Choice is good and right now we've got lots. I hope this D-FA50 1.4 does well in the marketplace, in reviews, and in helping pull more into the fold. I hope the old guard doesn't scare these folks away.
07-23-2017, 09:39 AM   #1316
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
So I got out my Pentax-F 50mm f/1.4 and then I got out my Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4 and then I looked again at the pictures of the someday coming DFA 50mm f/1.4. And wondered to myself, "Why is this new lens so big?" What is different with this new lens that requires it to be so much larger than the older 50mm lenses? Is it because it is made for digital? Because it is made for 36mp and more? Because it has a lens motor? Because the ability to pixel peep now means sharp across the whole frame is the new standard? Or something else? Why would a photographer buy this lens over the (for example) the DA 50mm f/1.8 that gets a 9.3 rating in the database and weighs only 122gm?

Just curious.................
Bigger is better - all the competition has shown large designs not possibe before. Performance is great and tody you can produce large aspherical lens elements for acceptable price. If a company wnats to be recognized it needs a large aperture 50 that can compete with Canon, Zeiss, Sigma. Nikon opted for a more artistic lens. And today's cameras resolve more detail challenging any lens.
07-23-2017, 10:04 AM - 3 Likes   #1317
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
Yeah I don't know about all that. My M50 1.4 is an all night fringe party when run wide open in the wrong situation. DA50 1.8 seems much better, DA*55 also seems very excellent at not doing the purple & green fringe thing that the older 50 1.4's did.

Choice is good and right now we've got lots. I hope this D-FA50 1.4 does well in the marketplace, in reviews, and in helping pull more into the fold. I hope the old guard doesn't scare these folks away.
I just hope they can sell enough of them to make a go of it. So far, all the DFAs apart from the 28-105 are way out of my price range, and the DFA 28-105 is too expensive (and too good optically) to be called a kit lens. My worry is Pentax putting all this money into expensive glass, they may not be able to sell. The 150-450 should be right up my alley. I would pay $1500 as opposed to 1k for 150-600 Sigma or Tamron,

At Henry's my store of choice

DFA 150-450 - 2749, over 3k with tax. 4k with a KP.

Tamron 150-600 $1,199 plus Nikon D3400 $519 or combined $1718, 2k with Tax.

This is a high risk game Pentax is playing, betting that they can cash in on the high end sales, while providing limited options for the rest of us. SO far so good, but let's hope it continues that way. They have cut out a lot of the market, especially in full frame. I guess the strategy is to continue to push APS-c for the less serious and FF for the big spenders. Which makes a lot more sense than it sounds like. If you buy a $1000 camera you buy $1000 lenses. If you buy a $3000 (CAD) camera you buy $3000 lenses, right?

Others have ridiculed Pentax users for buying $2500 K-1 and sticking a $50 piece of glass on the front. I'm guessing that's what Pentax is reacting to. They want something for the big spenders. I just want to shoot and what I have is just fine. Hence this is way more of a gamble for them. They need more market share to maintain sales of the new generation glass, they need to recruit more folks with more money than their current user base. Us old dudes can't really help out. Hell for many of us we can't even comprehend buying A K-1 and the DFAs, already over 10k and counting. If Pentax is going to be successful with the DFAs, it won't be because of us. But then in 20 years we'll all be dead and what we want won't matter.

To me this is more about product positioning in the market place, more than the needs of more than a few customers. The availability of high end glass makes your cheaper glass look like a better deal. The only thing on my horizon would be the 55-300 PLM. I want to experience that quiet operation and fast focus speed, but from an focal length and aperture perspective, I don't need the lens.

If everyone was like me the lens Pentax would be coming out with would be the 200mm ƒ4 macro. Somehow I guess they'll do better with the 50 1.4.

Last edited by normhead; 07-23-2017 at 10:13 AM.
07-23-2017, 11:25 AM   #1318
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
If everyone was like me the lens Pentax would be coming out with would be the 200mm ƒ4 macro.
This one is very useful and hard to find in any mount. + can be used as tele for landscapes when the 28-105 is too short.
07-23-2017, 01:47 PM   #1319
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
But then in 20 years we'll all be dead and what we want won't matter.
... I hope not!
07-23-2017, 01:51 PM   #1320
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looking at the size, I thought it was for the 645z
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