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07-24-2017, 06:07 AM   #1336
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You pay a lot for small improvements in performance once you get to a certain point, both in terms of size and money. But Pentax already has the cheap end of the 50mm equation covered with the FA 50 and DA 50 and DA *55.

This is only one of the lenses they are working on right now and certainly a 20-ish mm prime and DFA *85 will follow. Unfortunately, my expectation would be that those lenses will be quite large too.

Edit: This was the argument back in the day between, say, the FA 35 and the FA limited 31. What did you get more than just a better build for the extra 600 dollars between the two lenses? Better transitions between in focus and out of focus. A little better center sharpness wide open. Maybe better colors? But there were plenty of folks who argued all day long that the differences were negligible and that money spent on an FA 31 was wasted as a result.


Last edited by Rondec; 07-24-2017 at 06:53 AM.
07-24-2017, 06:07 AM   #1337
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Exactly what need is being filled by such a big lens?
Corner performance, particularly wide open, would be my guess ...
07-24-2017, 06:37 AM   #1338
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QuoteOriginally posted by OoKU Quote
so strong
Is there tape over the DoF scale?
07-24-2017, 06:40 AM   #1339
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
But still VERY needed!


Who said they do that? Do you know more then we in Ricoh do?
I was replying to the previous poster. But maybe the Pentax APS-C lens catalogue could do with an overhaul? Not that many lenses in it have fast modern motors (not SDM) and optics?

QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
And why is that? Please do tell....
The melancholy dreams of attracting the "Pros" never end, but where are they? It's a largely meaningless word and these days does it matter one jot anyway? My impression is that Pentax terminated their professional services last year, at least in the West, leaving Pentax as the only camera brand without a professional services offer. If this is not true, please say so. Even then, how many "Pros" is Pentax realistically going to attract when Canon and Nikon offer what they do and now Fuji have their new MF camera and a professional services arm for that too?

There is, however, probably a good-sized pool of knowledgeable and wealthy amateurs out there. They could be professionals if they wanted because they are both talented and highly experienced, but they don't need to be. They appreciate quality, they can afford to pay what it takes and they aren't taken in by modern marketing nonsense. These are the folks who are likely buying Pentax cameras today and who will to be buying something like the new 50mm f1.4, I would think. I am sure Pentax would like to attract professionals, but then every brand would say that. However, were that the case one would expect a roster worldwide of well-regarded professional brand ambassadors and visionaries, the opinion-formers who are already on board - backed by the websites and the YouTube channels, et al.. I'm not seeing any of that. Which suggests that the Pro talk is rather optimistic marketing blather with wealthy amateurs doing by far the most of the actual purchasing, mainly in Japan. These folks are the real bread and butter at the upper end. Isn't that better than a tiny handful of these unicorn-like Pros?

QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Dont you think Pentax (Ricoh) are working on those areas? Its not done over the night to turn a ship that was almost on the bottom...
If you are saying that Pentax are working on a new professional services offer to replace the one terminated last year, do please say so. Yes or no would be fine And if you are saying that Pentax are working on a modern mirrorless camera and lenses to replace the fast-ageing APS-C fleet, do please tell us too Many people would hope they are working on both.


Last edited by mecrox; 07-24-2017 at 06:56 AM.
07-24-2017, 06:50 AM - 1 Like   #1340
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I don't think Pentax wants to attract Pros. They want wealthy amateurs. That's where the money is and I warrant most of the upper end cameras are sold to folks who will never sell a print in their lives.
07-24-2017, 06:57 AM   #1341
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't think Pentax wants to attract Pros. They want wealthy amateurs. That's where the money is and I warrant most of the upper end cameras are sold to folks who will never sell a print in their lives.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
07-24-2017, 07:00 AM   #1342
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Rondec, and how do you get wealthy amateurs to buy?
07-24-2017, 07:05 AM   #1343
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QuoteOriginally posted by Spottyscotty Quote
Corner performance, particularly wide open, would be my guess ...

SO a lens that is going to have narrow DoF, and will mostly be shot with out of focus corners wide open needs super sharp corner performance? I can think of only one scenario where that would be true. Using it to copy art work in a museum or something. 2D corner excellence is not worth paying for for 99% of camera owners. And those who need it should buy macro lenses, not 1.4 lenses.

Naw, that can't be it.

07-24-2017, 07:07 AM - 1 Like   #1344
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Rondec, and how do you get wealthy amateurs to buy?
I think probably what they are doing. Have products that stand out in the market place as testing high on sharpness, wide open performance, etc. Releasing a bunch of pretty good value for the price lenses won't get them there.

I say that and I think they already have a lot of good value for the price products. It is the upper end that needs to be filled in.

Last edited by Rondec; 07-24-2017 at 07:29 AM.
07-24-2017, 07:10 AM   #1345
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Rondec, and how do you get wealthy amateurs to buy?
Tell them what you have to sell is better than what they own. They'll never be able to evaluate the difference, even if it's not.

I met a guy last winter with his K-1 and K3ii, DFA 150-450 and 15-30. He was very happy with it all, a position made possible by the fact that he could drop 8k Canadian on camera gear without blinking. I'm not going to do that, I'd have to sell my house.

He was sold on the value of the K-1 and then just bought the lenses he wanted to go with it. Wealthy amateurs are like that.
07-24-2017, 07:11 AM   #1346
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@Rondec:
Yeah, sure - but getting pros onboard is part of the process, I'd think
And I believe this is true with the other brands as well. In many cases, the pro users are "sponsored" by the non-pros.
07-24-2017, 07:13 AM   #1347
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I wonder if they have any heavy hitters similar to the likes of Hirakawa Jun that are currently designing the 50 and 85.

Hirakawa Jun designed the:

smc Pentax-DA 10-17mm F3.5-4.5 Fish-Eye ED [IF]
smc Pentax-DA 14mm F2.8 ED [IF]
smc Pentax-FA★ 24mm F2 AL [IF]
smc Pentax-FA 28mm F2.8 AL
smc Pentax-FA 35mm F2 AL
smc Pentax-DA 40mm F2.8 Limited
smc Pentax-FA 43mm F1.9 Limited
smc Pentax-DA★ 55mm F1.4 SDM
smc Pentax-FA 77mm F1.8 Limited
smc Pentax-FA★ 80-200 F2.8 ED [IF]
smc Pentax-FA★ 85mm F1.4 [IF]
07-24-2017, 07:14 AM   #1348
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Apparently, Mr. Hirakawa wasn't into large, well corrected lenses. And yes, they do have other lens designers.
07-24-2017, 07:17 AM   #1349
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
@Rondec:
Yeah, sure - but getting pros onboard is part of the process, I'd think
And I believe this is true with the other brands as well. In many cases, the pro users are "sponsored" by the non-pros.
I suspect way more people buy cameras based on the work of the pros who use that camera than many of us in Pentaxland would suspect. It's not an option for us with so few published pros using Pentax, but to this day, if I see an image I really like, I try and find out what it was shot with. (And then I usually say to myself either "I could have shot that with my Pentax." or, "the price of that system is way beyond my means." Usually one of the two is applicable.
07-24-2017, 07:17 AM   #1350
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Is there tape over the DoF scale?
It seems to be the same mock-up as the one showcased at CP+ two months before, with a 3D printed casing, a non-working depth-of-field scale and some specific parts (golden ring, AF/MF button, focus ring).
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