Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Closed Thread
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
07-25-2017, 11:30 PM   #1441
Senior Member




Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 214
QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
I'm afraid it will be a notch below the two others.
But still very good?

07-26-2017, 02:30 AM - 1 Like   #1442
Senior Member




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Surrey
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 229
QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
I'm afraid it will be a notch below the two others.
How do you know this? Are you member of the development or production team? Or have you seen and tested the optical formula, glass, focusing, coating?

I think it is very premature to panic about this lens as nobody outside Ricoh has seen a glimpse of it

David
07-26-2017, 03:38 AM   #1443
Pentaxian
D1N0's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: ---
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,207
QuoteOriginally posted by davidsladek Quote
How do you know this?
He doesn't just that he is not very optimistic about Ricoh's lens making capabilities.
07-26-2017, 03:51 AM   #1444
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
ffking's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Poole
Posts: 3,778
QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Originally posted by davidsladek
How do you know this?
He doesn't just that he is not very optimistic about Ricoh's lens making capabilities.
As I read this, the original quote was a response to a comparison between three Ricoh lenses

07-26-2017, 05:12 AM   #1445
Pentaxian
D1N0's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: ---
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,207
QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
As I read this, the original quote was a response to a comparison between three Ricoh lenses
None of which have been launched yet let alone tested.
07-26-2017, 07:12 AM - 1 Like   #1446
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Central Ohio (formerly SF Bay Area)
Posts: 1,505
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Uninspiring photos of cats and weird theories, I've read such things before except it wasn't with cats. But maybe this time it's not utter nonsense

L.E. Wait a minute... I can't be bothered to read most of it, but that last paragraph...
Bengal cats are the best cats, so I believe everything in that article.
07-26-2017, 07:58 AM   #1447
Pentaxian
Site Supporter
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 30,199
Well, it's good that the thread has finally deteriorated into puns and discussions of cats. Since no one has seen it or tested it (that we know of <cough kenspo cough> it's really all speculation. But is it a Sigma or a Zeiss? Can a relatively inexperienced big glass designer on his first effort come up with a design that will put Pentax on top of the photographic world? How far has Pentax fallen? We can be pretty sure Sigma can put many more engineers than Pentax given the number of lenses they sell compared to Pentax. So we find our selves hoping for a saviour. who doesn't lay a "it's better than any previous Pentax lens but far short of the competition" type egg, that will be inspiring to Pentax shooters, but leaving the rest of the camera world thinking "what the heck?"

But I have to say. Pentax has to do this just to keep up with the marketing machine in the camera world. IF 90% of the camera world is going ahead with big lenses then that's almost like free advertising for your big lens. In my parody of the universe the camera companies come out with all this big glass and outrageous resolution and clarity, and some one does a study in which they determine that people like the low res images that leave more to the imagination. But primitive people will still have to learn to look at photographs. It's not a natural talent. The goal of campaigns by camera companies should be to produce a bunch high res images that are so much different than small lens images, it changes what people expect to see in an image. Human perception ifs that fluid in areas like photography. What we see is affected by what we are conditioned to see and we react by saying "great conforming image" or "odd". Right now the world is pretty comfortable with the images produced by smaller lenses. The large lens folks need time to post some images, to come up with the blow your socks off image that demonstrates the value of big heavy lenses.

But more likely the big lens hype will just continue unabated. After all, a very small minority will spend money on Zeiss lenses already. It would appear the camera industry thinks they can expand that end of the market. Or at least they want to expand that end of the market. Sigma is gambling on it. Now Pentax is gambling on it. According to previous posters Canon and Nikon are gambling on it. But like everything else, in the end it's a consumer decision. We don't have to buy them. I'm sure Ricoh marketing knows what they are doing. They wouldn't be doing this if they didn't smell money to be had.

I'm just not sure it has any value at all to the majority of Pentax's current shooters, who are APS-c not FF. It's like they have invented a new company inside the old Pentax's skin. A new company that ate the old Pentax from the inside out.
07-26-2017, 08:53 AM   #1448
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
ffking's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Poole
Posts: 3,778
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
It's like they have invented a new company inside the old Pentax's skin. A new company that ate the old Pentax from the inside out.
There was a time, not so long ago, when Pentax lost its way. Pentax were always different, but there was a time when they appeared to be being different for the sake of being different. But in the end, the only being different that really cuts it is being better. If that's what Ricoh want, then I'm with them: I don't want my camera to stand out from the crown - I want my images to stand out from the crowd.

07-26-2017, 08:58 AM - 1 Like   #1449
Pentaxian
Mistral75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Paris
Posts: 3,574
QuoteOriginally posted by x4rd Quote
But still very good?
Of course!

QuoteOriginally posted by davidsladek Quote
How do you know this? Are you member of the development or production team? Or have you seen and tested the optical formula, glass, focusing, coating?

I think it is very premature to panic about this lens as nobody outside Ricoh has seen a glimpse of it

David
Nobody's panicking here and definitely not me.

QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
He doesn't just that he is not very optimistic about Ricoh's lens making capabilities.
That's not the point.

QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
As I read this, the original quote was a response to a comparison between three Ricoh lenses
Exactly. The point is that a short telephoto lens is easier to correct optically than a standard lens, which is easier to correct than a wide angle.

Look at the Otus, Milvus, Sigma Art lenses, etc., you'll see that their 28/35mm, 50/55mm and 85mm are all excellent but that their 85mm are optically wise a tad above their 50/55mm which are a tad above their 28/35mm.
07-26-2017, 09:02 AM   #1450
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Lawrence, KS
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,939
QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
There was a time, not so long ago, when Pentax lost its way. Pentax were always different, but there was a time when they appeared to be being different for the sake of being different. But in the end, the only being different that really cuts it is being better. If that's what Ricoh want, then I'm with them: I don't want my camera to stand out from the crown - I want my images to stand out from the crowd.
At what point was this too-different phase? Which products or activities do you think exemplifies this statement?
07-26-2017, 09:08 AM   #1451
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 10,900
Ughh... normhead, did you just called Pentax "a relatively inexperienced big glass designer on his first effort"? Did you ask "how far has Pentax fallen"?
Please tell me it was only my imagination... no way you'd say such things about the company designing 645 lenses and the two big zooms - not to mention their heritage lenses, which are not all small (compared to the same-era lenses).
07-26-2017, 09:31 AM   #1452
Pentaxian
Site Supporter
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 30,199
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Ughh... normhead, did you just called Pentax "a relatively inexperienced big glass designer on his first effort"? Did you ask "how far has Pentax fallen"?
Please tell me it was only my imagination... no way you'd say such things about the company designing 645 lenses and the two big zooms - not to mention their heritage lenses, which are not all small (compared to the same-era lenses).
OK then, show me the Pentax 50 before this one that were anywhere near this size. The 55 1.4 is 375 grams. Hardly huge compared to the Sigma 50 1.4 referenced above. In fact, still relatively small. You say Pentax has experience producing huge lenses in traditional focal lengths. Your example please?

This is not about producing big lenses as in a 645 or telephoto. This is about taking traditionally compact designs like the 50, and adding many new elements to help control CA, which is a proposition of debatable value when looking at various images. Digitalis' comparison of the Sigma 30 1.4 rendering pretty close to the 31 ltd, with the 31 having much smoother bokeh at the higher f values. The big glass was a trade off, not a straight up improvement. People seem to be jumping to he conclusion that because it's bigger and more corrected, that they will render better looking images, and so far that has not been established. You could look at the 31 and Sigma 30 and pick either one depending on your preferences. I'd pick the 31. Others have flat out said they prefer the Sigma.

So the big thing here is that the bigger lenses currently being designed may or may not be judged as superior or inferior by any given individual. Until we see the lens and how it renders we won't have a valid opinion. The 28-105 gives us hope, it's a great lens for the money... but it's a compact design, not a big heavily corrected design. And while the 70-200 and 150-450 get a lot of love from the Pentax community, no one is changing systems to get them. They might be as good as the competition, but there's been little indication whether or not that's true one way or the other, even though they've added quite a bit of weight. As I said, Pentax hasn't done this before, and it hasn't.

Last edited by normhead; 07-26-2017 at 09:53 AM.
07-26-2017, 09:45 AM   #1453
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 4,773
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
You say Pentax has experience producing huge lenses in traditional focal lengths. Your example please?
I'd say it is easier to make larger lenses. I was often astonished by the DA35ltd and DA70ltd by the fact that those lenses were not as fast as Sigma glass, but the limited were sharper wide open and at the same f stop than the Sigmas. Practically, I'd have to stop down sigma lenses one or two stops to get sharp images, the only advantages of the sigmas was price and a brighter image in the viewfinder.
07-26-2017, 09:50 AM   #1454
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 10,900
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
OK then, show me the Pentax 50 before this one that were anywhere near this size. The 55 1.4 is 375 grams. Hardly huge compared to the Sigma 50 1.4 referenced above. In fact, still relatively small. You say Pentax has experience producing huge lenses in traditional focal lengths. Your example please?
You are moving the goalposts. First you said "big glass", now it's a 50mm?
I already responded to your original claim. And now I will only add - you should prove that making a large, well corrected prime is so different than everything Pentax did before, that it can be considered a "first effort" needing specialized lens designers.

By the way:
http://kmp.bdimitrov.de/lenses/zooms/long/FA250-600f5.6.html
07-26-2017, 09:55 AM   #1455
Pentaxian
Site Supporter
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 30,199
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You are moving the goalposts. First you said "big glass", now it's a 50mm?
I already responded to your original claim. And now I will only add - you should prove that making a large, well corrected prime is so different than everything Pentax did before, that it can be considered a "first effort" needing specialized lens designers.

By the way:
FA* 250-600/5.6 ED [IF]
With all due respect Kunzite, this thread is about the 50mm 1.4 and I wrote in that context. I didn't move the goalposts, you took us away from the context of the thread to make a semantical point.
Closed Thread

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, drive, dslr, effort, f/1.4, f1.8, fa, im, k-1, lens, lenses, management, omega, opinion, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, people, photo, product, quality, ricoh, sigma, size, statistics, tamron, taste, theory, time
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Diglloyd reviews DA 35, DFA 50 and DFA 100 Macro lenses on the K-1 Matchete Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 19 06-09-2016 09:18 AM
Sigma 50/1.4 EX vs. Pentax FA 50/1.4 and DA 55/1.4 DonovanDwyer Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 17 01-24-2014 12:54 PM
For Sale - Sold: Sigma 10-20mm/4, Pentax FA 50/1.4, DFA 100mm/2.8 Macro Alam Sold Items 5 11-20-2011 03:02 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:54 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top