[ogl]

By your logic when Tokina creates lens with licensed Pentax optical design, Pentax DA* 16-50/50-135 turns into jointly developed lens.

It's not my logic, but your wrong logic.

It's fact that
Pentax and Tokina had signed the agreement about co-developing new lenses and really worked in that way.
Is it surprise for you?

Nobody knows which part of lenses were designed by Tokina and Pentax engineers. Nobody from us never read this agreement.

Tamron lenses 15-30 and 24-70 are rebadged lenses.

[Kunzite]

They have tighten the leash..so maybe they're on to him? Pentax has made it crystal-clear, that they dont like leaks..Thats why I'm very careful on what i share and not

I'm quite sure you misheard, they said they don't like leeks - thus, you're free to spill the beans

[Winder]

I like compact systems as well as anyone, but APS-C does an excellent job of meeting this need. The KP and DA Limited lenses are hard to beat for people looking for excellent image quality in a compact package.

[kenspo]

I'm quite sure you misheard, they said they don't like leeks - thus, you're free to spill the beans

[cali92rs]

I never understood the back and forth about who designs/licenses/builds etc lenses and if they are rebadges. Who cares if it takes great pictures and satisfies your needs?
Both tamron and sigma make very high quality lenses that go head to head and even better some of their OEM counterparts. If Ricoh wraps some of those lenses in Pentax clothing, and makes money doing it, i really fail to see the downside.

[ogl]

There's no evidence that Tokina collaborated with Pentax on any designs of any lens. The DA 12-24 is the only Tokina designed lens in Pentax's lineup.
.

Well...Patents belongs to Pentax (except DA12-24 and D(FA)100/2,8 macro), but how do you think that the word "сo-development" means?

[ogl]

I never understood the back and forth about who designs/licenses/builds etc lenses and if they are rebadges. Who cares if it takes great pictures and satisfies your needs?

Good point.
Nobody cares...But some users are big fans of Pentax and protect Pentax gear as they could......

[bdery]

Size wise shouldn't be an issue since it is geared to mount to the K-1. Should balance nicely.

I disagree. I use the K-1 and am still looking for small lenses whenever possible.

It's possible to make a very good FA50 that is small, and a superb FA77 that isn't much bigger. I understand that a better lens usually requires more glass, but I'm still hoping Pentax designer (and more importantly, Pentax project managers) do not forget that one of the perks of the company is the lineup of small, superb lenses.

Those are, in general, Limited and not STAR which tend to be larger, but still.

[kenspo]

I disagree. I use the K-1 and am still looking for small lenses whenever possible.

It's possible to make a very good FA50 that is small, and a superb FA77 that isn't much bigger..

Thats fair enough..What ever works for you. But most pros and potensial new users of the Pentax system think different. These new lenses are made for the future and make my work easier I can see your point about size, but not many outside the "pentax circle" care much about having stuff small as possible..

[mecrox]

Just to be clear, it's not that I don't think the DFA*50 will be a good feather in the cap for Pentax. But I disagree that compact glass
is somehow 'old'. The current trend for big glass is certainly fueled by all the online comparisons, (DXO et al), which at best have
little real world applicability for most people, save the ability to refer to a chart and claim, "mine's bigger".

Everything is cyclical. I do fully expect that at some point in the future there will be a demand for 'smart' lenses that acknowledge the
benefits of size and portability, just as the FA Limiteds address so well. And when that happens, there will be a chorus of young, (or
forgetful old), shooters proclaiming 'big & heavy is over', 'compact is the future', 'let the dinosaurs die' and what not.

Yes, the DFA*50 will certainly fit the bill for someone. And a lot of others will buy it because a chart told them to do so. But it is no
more the future than a gorgeous, smart, compact HD DFA43 Limited could, (will), be.

Well said, and much my own feeling too. Fast forward a few years and it could be that Fuji turned out to have made a shrewd bet by passing on FF altogether. For those who want big and beautiful and who are mainly print-based there is medium format and for those who want smaller and more adaptable and who are mainly screen-based there is APS-C or M43. The hollow middle is conventional FF for all except action/sports and then some documentary-type things (for which this new Pentax lens sounds just the ticket). It's interesting that Ricoh are in a good position to take the same approach, if they decide to. It will be fascinating to see how this plays out although, er, not nearly as much fun as going out and taking photographs

[Foxbat]

It's fact that
Pentax and Tokina had signed the agreement about co-developing new lenses and really worked in that way.

If it's a fact, you'll have no problem providing substantial proof that Tokina created hardware for Pentax DA* 16-50 and 50-135, since you claim that those lenses are not 100% Pentax design and we already established that optical design was 100% created by Pentax.

Nobody knows which part of lenses were designed by Tokina and Pentax engineers. Nobody from us never read this agreement.

So, basically, you don't know, yet you claim that aforementioned * lenses were not 100% Pentax design?

Nobody cares...But some users are big fans of Pentax and protect Pentax gear as they could......

Some users think that spreading rumours and urban legends as 'facts' is not right.

I never understood the back and forth about who designs/licenses/builds etc lenses and if they are rebadges. Who cares if it takes great pictures and satisfies your needs?
Both tamron and sigma make very high quality lenses that go head to head and even better some of their OEM counterparts. If Ricoh wraps some of those lenses in Pentax clothing, and makes money doing it, i really fail to see the downside.

It matters only because some certain individuals cannot stop themselves from re-telling myths and urban legends about DA* designs origins whenever new * lens is announced by Ricoh.

[kenspo]

Well said, and much my own feeling too. Fast forward a few years and it could be that Fuji turned out to have made a shrewd bet by passing on FF altogether. For those who want big and beautiful and who are mainly print-based there is medium format and for those who want smaller and more adaptable and who are mainly screen-based there is APS-C or M43. The hollow middle is conventional FF for all except action/sports and some documentary-type things. It's interesting that Rioch are in a good position to take the same approach, if they decide to. It will be fascinating to see how this plays out although, er, not nearly as much fun as going out and taking photographs

Pentax would most likely not survived very long without K-1 and the new lenses. Just have that in mind.

[mecrox]

Pentax would most likely not survived very long without K-1 and the new lenses. Just have that in mind.

My point is that Ricoh are in quite a strong position by virtue of a strong foot in both APS-C and MF if they find that their FF approach isn't working as they wish it to, because FF itself starts falling out of favour as a platform. I know that may sound incredible, but nothing is written in stone and chances are that our assumptions about FF will soon change as technical and cultural changes shift things around as they always do. Camera-makers these days are having to ride two restless tigers at once - technology and consumer culture. Anyway this is getting oeuftopic so I'll leave it there.

[kenspo]

APS-C will never be as good as FF..and for many, MF is to much/expencive. So FF was very much needed to get Pentax forward.

They will continue to make APS-C too..but that alone won't get Pentax up there

[joergens.mi]

I can understand, that these big lenses are necessary to get the maximum performance at maximum F-stop with the modern sensors. I'm shure, that they would be build it smaller, if possible
There is a market for maximum f-stop with maximum performance, especially when you are playing cards: I've more f-stop than you, my lens is sharper, has more lines per mm.
Only a few people have a need for that performance combination.

I hope that Pentax will find a way to build a second set of lenses especially for outdoor photography, like the well known limited's and fill some gaps in that setup. x, x, 33, 43, 50, 77, xx, xx, xx,... Not maximum F-stop, but excellent in performance, small, light water resistant.