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02-22-2017, 02:54 PM   #346
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithedreamer Quote
Can we get weather sealing on them? I mean, I'm shooting in the rain either way, but it's nice not having to worry (as much).
It doesn't rain most of the time. Put a WR zoom in your bag for when it does.

02-22-2017, 02:58 PM   #347
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
Seems kind of right, though, yes? I mean, we've got the lens roadmap... There could be others shown the same day, this is the first leak found. I'd like another lens with this one anyway.
No, you don't know Ricoh plans or state of projects dedicated to lens development or other things that influenced management decision to showcase that prototype, so you can't assume anything. When Ricoh announced D FA* 70-200 and when it was actually released?

QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
Has anyone actually suggested that they believe Ricoh has no Pentax wides coming?
Ogl is mighty upset that wide angle prototype was not shown, hence Ricoh doesn't understand importance of wide angle primes.

QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
What? Who suggested that?
Ogl, several pages back, and some other people who think that Ricoh should've put Takumar 50 1.4 optics into WR body with DC motor.

QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
Who suggested that?
Ogl, again, indirectly implying that Ricoh management decision to showcase normal prime prototype doesn't make sense and other users who think that re-issuing Takumars/SMCs would've been better idea

QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
Blame what's his face evangelist posting comments about how this is the way of the future and to forget small glass because that's history if you don't like people suggesting such things.

Yeah, well, see above about a guy saying we have to shop old stock if we want small fast glass going forward. Plus what are we supposed to do, wish for old glass and ignore all the k-mount gear that works for us? Multiplier: A *lot* of the install base cannot use KAF4 lenses. Right now the new 55-300RE is the only lens I can buy that I can't actually use properly on my K-5II. But again the voice is telling us that it's "modern hardware" going forward. I can't justify buying a new body right now. This lens isn't tempting me but that previously mentioned 28mm I keep whining about would create a question for me.
I've seen him telling that Pentax urgently needs modern glass to be considered as a viable option by professionals and new demanding users who want Sigma level of performance. Can you show his post where he claims that Ricoh is not going to release any compact lenses anymore? I'm genuinely interested.
02-22-2017, 02:58 PM - 5 Likes   #348
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I think there is way too much hand wringing about this.

The older lenses aren't going away. If you don't need a f1.4 lens that is sharp wide open, then a DA *55, FA 43, DA 50 or FA 50 may be adequate for your needs. In addition, there are tons of old 50s that are sharp from f2 on full frame. To have a modern, well corrected, f1.4 lens that is sharp wide open on full frame requires a big lens that will be really expensive.

The limiteds are nice lenses, but they aren't the fastest lenses out there and they don't have excellent corner sharpness wide open. I think they are still adequate for my needs at this point, but the fact that some people want a cheaper Otus in k mount is fine.

The whole discussion about the DA *zooms is instructive. There was a time when Pentax really was rock bottom, such that they had to license their optical formulas to Tokina. This gave them a little extra cash, but it also diluted the value of the Pentax brand lenses.

Pentax still does some rebadges, but as far as I know they have always designed their own * lenses and whether or not you like them, they are Pentax and something you won't get with other brands.

(prerequisite DA *55 on K-1 shot)

02-22-2017, 03:02 PM - 2 Likes   #349
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
It doesn't rain most of the time.
It does if you live in the UK, or at least it feels like it

02-22-2017, 03:14 PM - 1 Like   #350
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QuoteOriginally posted by FantasticMrFox Quote
You can't just take an arbitrary point back in the past for comparison and then claim that because the current number is higher, there is no decrease. If sales were lower last year than the year before, that means falling sales, irrespective of what the numbers used to be 20 years ago. And as evident from sales statistics, DSLR sales have been falling significantly from at least 2013, if not earlier.
To make any intelligent conclusions you must look at a very long trend, not an isolated peak.
If some 7 years ago DLSR sales were 6x above normal considered by historic trend of SLR sales, then, if they fell to 'mere' 4x within the last 3 years, or even as low as 2x, that is not "a tragedy", or "plunging sales", but expected dropping down to what is considered normal for the technologically mature digital SLR. Because that peak of DSLR sales of 7 years ago was abnormal.

It is basics of statistics.

---------- Post added 02-23-2017 at 09:27 AM ----------

It seems some folks are in fact offended with the new DA*50/1.4. It is not what they had in mind.
And then, they post shots made with DA55, FA50 or whatever else, trying to defend their own choices and how 'great those old lenses work on K1'.

Please consider that the digital FF has new demands of its own, and that may not be considered practical in terms of historic 35mm photography.
Now is the time when that legendary 10% increase in quality means going an extra mile in terms of uncompromising design, weight and cost.

Ricoh wants Pentax to have an offer in that specific arena, and they must do things the way others are doing it. There is no way around it — you are in the game, or you are outside of game.

The new DA*50 will sell 10x more K1 cameras to discerning photographers coming to Pentax system, because firstly their interest is different from yours — you are concerned to use lenses purchased 15 or 30 years ago and are content with 'good enough'. They, on the other hand, are new kids and they demand the very top notch.

They demand that top 10% of extra quality, and for which they buy an FF camera with pixel shift and a fantastic new lens.
But that 10%, that makes their results superior to yours, you are willing to sacrifice.

Last edited by Uluru; 02-22-2017 at 03:30 PM.
02-22-2017, 03:37 PM   #351
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
To make any intelligent conclusions you must look at a very long trend, not an isolated peak.
If some 7 years ago DLSR sales were 6x above normal considered by historic trend of SLR sales, then, if they fell to 'mere' 4x within the last 3 years, or even as low as 2x, that is not "a tragedy", or "plunging sales", but expected dropping down to what is considered normal for the technologically mature digital SLR. Because that peak of DSLR sales of 7 years ago was abnormal.

It is basics of statistics.
Since it was my comment that Mr Fox was defending, I feel I should say that just becaus the numbers are historically high, it doesn't mean that the current trend isn't downward - but the main point is that I was using this fact to say that Ricoh were making a good decision in producing this lens - a point on which we agree, and a much more important one than interpretation of statistics
02-22-2017, 03:52 PM - 4 Likes   #352
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It's all about choice, people.

Want pixie dust? Pentax has three FA limiteds and the biggest backlog of fully compatible legacy lenses of any system.

Want ultimate technical image quality, enough to make Canon/Nikon professionals and prosumers think about switching systems and advance the brand into the future? You need the Holy Trinity of zooms and an Otus-eating fast fifty. For starters.

Aaaaaand, here it is.

There is room in the ecosystem for both. Be happy.

02-22-2017, 04:03 PM - 1 Like   #353
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If Ricoh really wants to make me happy, they'll put together a podcast or YouTube talk show featuring kenspo and ogl. That would own.

Having said that, I welcome the new 50/1.4 * lens. It's not for me (at least while I have to work for a living), but fortunately I have plenty of options to choose from! In that range I have a DA 40 XS, an FA 43 Ltd., a DA 50/1.8, an SMC Tak 55/1.8, a Cosina 55/1.2, and a couple of zooms. None of these is well-corrected, modern, and fast focusing like a professional might want, though, so I see this lens fills a certain gap.
02-22-2017, 04:04 PM   #354
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24 pages in this thread (and counting) over one [proposed] new lens ...
02-22-2017, 04:04 PM   #355
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
I would find a vendor with a kind returns policy and start shopping DA*55's if I were in your position. I also wonder about about the Sigma 50 1.4 EX.
I'm 100% sure then new 50 will blow it out of the water in every respect. I'd rather wait and get the lens I've been looking forward to than fish for a good copy of 55 1.4 at this point, when the new lens is at least a reality and not a pipe dream

---------- Post added 02-22-17 at 05:12 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
To say honest I don't understand the logic of Ricoh's management.
No primes for wide-angle till 30 mm, no 85 mm lens. The users have a lot of 50 mm lenses...There is FA43.

Why this 50 mm monster first?
Aren't fifties almost always the best sellers for the system? And sort of a mark of a great system as well. I'm sure other will follow soon
02-22-2017, 04:16 PM   #356
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
What about these guys:
I have the 31mm and the 77mm, and they're great and relatively small for what they are, but they're still in a different handling class from the 15mm, the 21mm, and the 40mm.
02-22-2017, 04:16 PM   #357
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
I prefer the K-1 to the K-3 (I still own both) not so much because of the resolution and FF sensor, but because of the ergonomics, features, design, menus, etc. I have come to rely a LOT on the LCD overlay in the viewfinder, the swiveling screen, the third dial, etc. I feel constrained when I take out the K-3 again.



Who ever claimed that?



One of the problems Pentax has with marketing is that they cannot seem to convince people that some older lenses are still superb by 2017's standards. The FA limiteds (even the DA40 which works on FF) are the perfect example.



I disagree. The K-1 is slightly smaller than the K20D was. It is on par, or close to, some APS-C bodies from other brands.

And it doesn't mean a small lens doesn't contribute to keeping the overall size under control.



My friends shooting Nikon and eyeing my Limiteds with envy beg to differ

I fully understand that a larger 50 like this one will tremendously improve results wide open (the FA50 is usable but not impressive) and I see where it belongs in the lineup. I'm glad such a lens is coming along. I simply see that all the DFA lenses so far have been very large. I hope Pentax does not forget that it can produce superb compact lenses. A re-release of the FA20, FA28, FA35, FA135, with minimum work on the design, would work wonders. A full frame version of the 20-40 (which is already capable of covering the full frame sensor size from around 24mm) would also be welcome. A slight enlargement of the DA40 LTD to improve the corners could also please many.

The FA LTD are regarded as crown jewels, but they were not designed for test charts. They do not rest as well as modern design. And that's perfectly ok, it's their rendering which makes them special, not their MTF graphs.

In short, it's possible to release ultrafast and ultralarge lenses that work on full frame, but that doesn't mean it should exclude smaller, more compact lenses.
I have no experience with the Ltd glass yet. But, even though they might be great optically, I don't think they can go head to head with never higher res lenses that resolve more of the modern high mp sensors. And im enjoying the af with the newer 28-105 a lot, I'm hoping new 50 would be on par or better. Tech continues to develop, optical designs, glass quality improves, there surely is a way to grow in terms of new generation of ff lenses for Pentax.
02-22-2017, 04:17 PM - 1 Like   #358
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
It doesn't rain most of the time. Put a WR zoom in your bag for when it does.
It rains much of the time where I live, and I'll take a pass on the suggestion. I was doing portraiture in the rain last weekend with my D F A* 70-200 and my FA Limited 43. It was a lighter combo than the weight and cost of buying the 24-70 to tag along, and it also allowed wider apertures.
02-22-2017, 04:17 PM   #359
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
You have a knack for posting the incomprehensible. The FA ltds are small fast full frame lenses. The lenses people have been buying Pentax crop bodies for over the years, just so they could continue using them? , you know, those FA ltds? 31 43 77 ?

My 40XS (one of the smallest photographic lenses ever made) works great on my K-1. I guess that's not tiny enough?
Oh, I thought the 40mm worked OK but not great on the K-1. I thought there was heavy vignetting, especially at larger apertures. How are you finding it?
02-22-2017, 04:21 PM - 2 Likes   #360
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
I suspect that the long years of having only APS-C bodies has made many of us forget the importance of having a good, fast 50mm lens in the 35FF lineup. Paradoxically, for those of us with a history of film-era lenses, having a 50mm * lens is also an anomaly, as the FA* range did not include such a lens.

Ricoh could have started the new DFA * range of unifocal lenses with something else, but my guess is that they decided the shorter FL lenses would be more complex and time-consuming to design, and probably wouldn't be faster than the DFA24-70 or DFA15-30. Similarly, a fast 85 or 135 would be very expensive and would probably benefit from the design experience with the DFA*50. It makes no sense to build new f2.8 lenses in that range, when the newer zooms cover it very well, so f1.8 and/or f1.4 are probably required.
I have a feeling multiple lenses are being developed at the same time, doesn't make sense to do them one by one. At least they probably already have the optical formal calculated. Fifty is a fifty, Sigma art 50 sold like hot cakes, and all makers best selling primes are 50s I believe, maybe it just made most sense financially to release it first?
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