[x4rd]

I'm afraid it will be a notch below the two others.

But still very good?

[davidsladek]

I'm afraid it will be a notch below the two others.

How do you know this? Are you member of the development or production team? Or have you seen and tested the optical formula, glass, focusing, coating?

I think it is very premature to panic about this lens as nobody outside Ricoh has seen a glimpse of it

David

[D1N0]

How do you know this?

He doesn't just that he is not very optimistic about Ricoh's lens making capabilities.

[ffking]

Originally posted by davidsladek
How do you know this?
He doesn't just that he is not very optimistic about Ricoh's lens making capabilities.

As I read this, the original quote was a response to a comparison between three Ricoh lenses

[D1N0]

As I read this, the original quote was a response to a comparison between three Ricoh lenses

None of which have been launched yet let alone tested.

[Quicksand]

Uninspiring photos of cats and weird theories, I've read such things before except it wasn't with cats. But maybe this time it's not utter nonsense

L.E. Wait a minute... I can't be bothered to read most of it, but that last paragraph...

Bengal cats are the best cats, so I believe everything in that article.

[normhead]

Well, it's good that the thread has finally deteriorated into puns and discussions of cats. Since no one has seen it or tested it (that we know of <cough kenspo cough> it's really all speculation. But is it a Sigma or a Zeiss? Can a relatively inexperienced big glass designer on his first effort come up with a design that will put Pentax on top of the photographic world? How far has Pentax fallen? We can be pretty sure Sigma can put many more engineers than Pentax given the number of lenses they sell compared to Pentax. So we find our selves hoping for a saviour. who doesn't lay a "it's better than any previous Pentax lens but far short of the competition" type egg, that will be inspiring to Pentax shooters, but leaving the rest of the camera world thinking "what the heck?"

But I have to say. Pentax has to do this just to keep up with the marketing machine in the camera world. IF 90% of the camera world is going ahead with big lenses then that's almost like free advertising for your big lens. In my parody of the universe the camera companies come out with all this big glass and outrageous resolution and clarity, and some one does a study in which they determine that people like the low res images that leave more to the imagination. But primitive people will still have to learn to look at photographs. It's not a natural talent. The goal of campaigns by camera companies should be to produce a bunch high res images that are so much different than small lens images, it changes what people expect to see in an image. Human perception ifs that fluid in areas like photography. What we see is affected by what we are conditioned to see and we react by saying "great conforming image" or "odd". Right now the world is pretty comfortable with the images produced by smaller lenses. The large lens folks need time to post some images, to come up with the blow your socks off image that demonstrates the value of big heavy lenses.

But more likely the big lens hype will just continue unabated. After all, a very small minority will spend money on Zeiss lenses already. It would appear the camera industry thinks they can expand that end of the market. Or at least they want to expand that end of the market. Sigma is gambling on it. Now Pentax is gambling on it. According to previous posters Canon and Nikon are gambling on it. But like everything else, in the end it's a consumer decision. We don't have to buy them. I'm sure Ricoh marketing knows what they are doing. They wouldn't be doing this if they didn't smell money to be had.

I'm just not sure it has any value at all to the majority of Pentax's current shooters, who are APS-c not FF. It's like they have invented a new company inside the old Pentax's skin. A new company that ate the old Pentax from the inside out.

[ffking]

It's like they have invented a new company inside the old Pentax's skin. A new company that ate the old Pentax from the inside out.

There was a time, not so long ago, when Pentax lost its way. Pentax were always different, but there was a time when they appeared to be being different for the sake of being different. But in the end, the only being different that really cuts it is being better. If that's what Ricoh want, then I'm with them: I don't want my camera to stand out from the crown - I want my images to stand out from the crowd.

[Mistral75]

But still very good?

Of course!

How do you know this? Are you member of the development or production team? Or have you seen and tested the optical formula, glass, focusing, coating?

I think it is very premature to panic about this lens as nobody outside Ricoh has seen a glimpse of it

David

Nobody's panicking here and definitely not me.

He doesn't just that he is not very optimistic about Ricoh's lens making capabilities.

That's not the point.

As I read this, the original quote was a response to a comparison between three Ricoh lenses

Exactly. The point is that a short telephoto lens is easier to correct optically than a standard lens, which is easier to correct than a wide angle.

Look at the Otus, Milvus, Sigma Art lenses, etc., you'll see that their 28/35mm, 50/55mm and 85mm are all excellent but that their 85mm are optically wise a tad above their 50/55mm which are a tad above their 28/35mm.

[pres589]

There was a time, not so long ago, when Pentax lost its way. Pentax were always different, but there was a time when they appeared to be being different for the sake of being different. But in the end, the only being different that really cuts it is being better. If that's what Ricoh want, then I'm with them: I don't want my camera to stand out from the crown - I want my images to stand out from the crowd.

At what point was this too-different phase? Which products or activities do you think exemplifies this statement?

[Kunzite]

Ughh... normhead, did you just called Pentax "a relatively inexperienced big glass designer on his first effort"? Did you ask "how far has Pentax fallen"?
Please tell me it was only my imagination... no way you'd say such things about the company designing 645 lenses and the two big zooms - not to mention their heritage lenses, which are not all small (compared to the same-era lenses).

[normhead]

Ughh... normhead, did you just called Pentax "a relatively inexperienced big glass designer on his first effort"? Did you ask "how far has Pentax fallen"?
Please tell me it was only my imagination... no way you'd say such things about the company designing 645 lenses and the two big zooms - not to mention their heritage lenses, which are not all small (compared to the same-era lenses).

OK then, show me the Pentax 50 before this one that were anywhere near this size. The 55 1.4 is 375 grams. Hardly huge compared to the Sigma 50 1.4 referenced above. In fact, still relatively small. You say Pentax has experience producing huge lenses in traditional focal lengths. Your example please?

This is not about producing big lenses as in a 645 or telephoto. This is about taking traditionally compact designs like the 50, and adding many new elements to help control CA, which is a proposition of debatable value when looking at various images. Digitalis' comparison of the Sigma 30 1.4 rendering pretty close to the 31 ltd, with the 31 having much smoother bokeh at the higher f values. The big glass was a trade off, not a straight up improvement. People seem to be jumping to he conclusion that because it's bigger and more corrected, that they will render better looking images, and so far that has not been established. You could look at the 31 and Sigma 30 and pick either one depending on your preferences. I'd pick the 31. Others have flat out said they prefer the Sigma.

So the big thing here is that the bigger lenses currently being designed may or may not be judged as superior or inferior by any given individual. Until we see the lens and how it renders we won't have a valid opinion. The 28-105 gives us hope, it's a great lens for the money... but it's a compact design, not a big heavily corrected design. And while the 70-200 and 150-450 get a lot of love from the Pentax community, no one is changing systems to get them. They might be as good as the competition, but there's been little indication whether or not that's true one way or the other, even though they've added quite a bit of weight. As I said, Pentax hasn't done this before, and it hasn't.

[biz-engineer]

You say Pentax has experience producing huge lenses in traditional focal lengths. Your example please?

I'd say it is easier to make larger lenses. I was often astonished by the DA35ltd and DA70ltd by the fact that those lenses were not as fast as Sigma glass, but the limited were sharper wide open and at the same f stop than the Sigmas. Practically, I'd have to stop down sigma lenses one or two stops to get sharp images, the only advantages of the sigmas was price and a brighter image in the viewfinder.

[Kunzite]

OK then, show me the Pentax 50 before this one that were anywhere near this size. The 55 1.4 is 375 grams. Hardly huge compared to the Sigma 50 1.4 referenced above. In fact, still relatively small. You say Pentax has experience producing huge lenses in traditional focal lengths. Your example please?

You are moving the goalposts. First you said "big glass", now it's a 50mm?
I already responded to your original claim. And now I will only add - you should prove that making a large, well corrected prime is so different than everything Pentax did before, that it can be considered a "first effort" needing specialized lens designers.

By the way:
http://kmp.bdimitrov.de/lenses/zooms/long/FA250-600f5.6.html

[normhead]

You are moving the goalposts. First you said "big glass", now it's a 50mm?
I already responded to your original claim. And now I will only add - you should prove that making a large, well corrected prime is so different than everything Pentax did before, that it can be considered a "first effort" needing specialized lens designers.

By the way:
FA* 250-600/5.6 ED [IF]

With all due respect Kunzite, this thread is about the 50mm 1.4 and I wrote in that context. I didn't move the goalposts, you took us away from the context of the thread to make a semantical point.