DFA*50 1.4 coming

Nicolas06 · 08-07-2017, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by beholder3

You have not understood the market message: Go high margin or die. The very last thing anyone should waste resources on is "affordable". OEM lenses for less than $1.000 (the cheap part of the market) are absolute not what they need.
Pentax already has an affordable DA 50, which punches above its price.

There also is a reason why neither Canon nor Nikon have any competitive 50mm primes out there. The 50/1.2 sucks as much as the 58/1.4 sucks.

Interrestingly, for the past 10 years until 2 years ago, Pentax took the cheap, high value wagon and they didn't do that well but they managed. Since 2 years they dediced to go high end on the lenses side with expensive FF lenses and a cheap FF body. The expensive lenses didn't match at all the Pentax profile, its overall performance, R&D investment as well as its value as high end brand. This kind of things take years to build and need to correspond R&D that Pentax can't achieve by itself.

It isn't better to target highend or low end. This is just a different target. People can make lot of money on cheap or expensive things. The problem is that the highend market is something like 5-10% of the sales and everybody is in. And checking all the brands for highend products, the weakest brand by far is Pentax. They have difficulties with innovation and R&D and this is much more acceptable for entry level than high end.

90-95% of the market is still value based and basically Canon, Sony, Panasonic and Olympus are marking lot of money there. It allows them to recoup R&D cost, to be present in all shops and to be recognized so that when people upgrade they stay with the brand.

It isn't because all player try to go highend that the market is going highend exclusively. The most likely consequence in a shriking market like that is that there will be a terrible war with quite a few kills. Pentax is well positionned to be part of the killed. Canon, Sony and Fuji are well placed to take the other actors share of the market. In particular for the highend.

nzondlo · 08-09-2017, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

The 50 and 35 on FF aren't best FL for portraiture, very fast doesn't help

Instagram portrait photographers are all 35's and 50's these days. and I have a few friends making good use of their Sigma Art 24 1.4

They all take some beautiful pictures.

mannyquinto · 08-10-2017, 02:46 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Rondec

I just want them to release "something." It has been awhile since they released the 15-30 and 18-105 with the promise of primes to come...

I second Rondec's, please Ricoh announce and release something ......

**shardulm** · 08-10-2017, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by nzondlo

Instagram portrait photographers are all 35's and 50's these days. and I have a few friends making good use of their Sigma Art 24 1.4

They all take some beautiful pictures.

Although I am tending to agree on the 50mm FL, the 35mm isnt quiet there for portraiture. Instagram photos are more passport styled photos which may be done using a 35mm FL but are are not the same as the exotic (sharp and great bokeh) ones produced by longer FLs.

biz-engineer · 08-10-2017, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by Nicolas06

Pentax is well positionned to be part of the killed.

They don't get killed , they discretely withdraw so that they can keep cashing in from existing inventory.

Kunzite · 08-10-2017, 03:39 PM - **1 Like**

Sooo... if potential customers are reading this forum, what would they think? "Oh, boy, even the most ardent Pentax fans are talking about Pentax being killed... things must be dire indeed!".
Well done!

By the way, I don't believe in an all-out war between the traditional camera companies; and the other one - that-which-shall-not-be-named - apparently gave up on flooding the market with countless models. Such wars are expensive, and I doubt they would recover the costs.

banep · 08-11-2017, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Sooo... if potential customers are reading this forum, what would they think? "Oh, boy, even the most ardent Pentax fans are talking about Pentax being killed... things must be dire indeed!".
Well done!

Nooooo!!!

We strongly believe that DFA*50 1.4 is coming and will be out for the 100th aniversary of Asahi Optical Co or even sooner.

mee · 08-11-2017, 06:39 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Sooo... if potential customers are reading this forum, what would they think? "Oh, boy, even the most ardent Pentax fans are talking about Pentax being killed... things must be dire indeed!".
Well done!

I'm not sure that is our fault. It isn't our job to protect the brand, we're not on salary. If people have a certain feeling about the brand, then it would be a lie to oppose your opinion publically just to save face for the brand. We're not fanbois per say.. we're Pentax users, but only as long as the brand meets our 'needs'.

Besides, Adam has news and rumors at the top of the forums listings. If he was really concerned he could move this lower in the sections or just remove rumor speak altogether. And the same talks have been ongoing on Nikon forums and lots of bellyaching on Canon and Sony sites too. It happens.

**clackers** · 08-11-2017, 06:58 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by mee

And the same talks have been ongoing on Nikon forums and lots of bellyaching on Canon and Sony sites too. It happens.

What a joyless, unlikable bunch we photographers are.

**Rondec** · 08-11-2017, 07:01 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Kunzite

Sooo... if potential customers are reading this forum, what would they think? "Oh, boy, even the most ardent Pentax fans are talking about Pentax being killed... things must be dire indeed!".
Well done!

By the way, I don't believe in an all-out war between the traditional camera companies; and the other one - that-which-shall-not-be-named - apparently gave up on flooding the market with countless models. Such wars are expensive, and I doubt they would recover the costs.

Our job isn't really to protect Pentax -- that's their job. All they would need to do is make some statements, do a little advertising on social media, update the road map, or even release a new product. Anything along those lines would help out. I don't think Pentaxians are really a rabid bunch of fellows looking to bad mouth the company, but there has just been little info or products forthcoming since the release of the K-1 and the lenses that came out with it.

mee · 08-11-2017, 07:35 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by clackers

What a joyless, unlikable bunch we photographers are.

Some of the 'discussions' I've seen on other brand's forums could easily be mistaken as ours, just replace their brand with ours in the text and they'd read the same. It is rather uncanny.

(Generally speaking,) I think we're spoiled in the camera world.. we've had so many new gizmos for the past decade, that it has melted our brains into thinking that level and speed of continual advancement was normal.

We've grown accustom to it... but do we settle back into the 80s and early 90s speed of product releases soon? Flagships every 5+ years and lower expectations on sales? It seems, to me, that is where Ricoh is going.. but I can't help but also think the mindset of customers (me included) is still largely on the high speed release mindset.

So there is a disparity between the company's mindset and the consumer's mindset.

**Rondec** · 08-11-2017, 07:52 AM - **1 Like**

A slower release schedule for full frame lenses is probably fine once they get the line up filled out, but till they get the basic primes (ultra wide prime, 50 and 85 -- I know there is a 35-ish prime as well, but since we have the FA 31, that one isn't crucial to me) done, they should be cranking out at least three new lenses a year. It really doesn't feel like that is too much to ask for.

**clackers** · 08-11-2017, 08:01 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by mee

Some of the 'discussions' I've seen on other brand's forums could easily be mistaken as ours, just replace their brand with ours in the text and they'd read the same. It is rather uncanny.

(Laughs)

Gloomy Gearheads lack the attitude to be good photographers, IMHO. Perhaps that's why they don't seem to post their photos on this forum. They're aware of it.

In my experience, they're no fun for people to pose for (the resulting expressions are indecisive/defensive), and they're a real drag to shoot beside.

And I believe creativity should be a team sport.

**RKKS08** · 08-11-2017, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

A slower release schedule for full frame lenses is probably fine once they get the line up filled out, but till they get the basic primes (ultra wide prime, 50 and 85 -- I know there is a 35-ish prime as well, but since we have the FA 31, that one isn't crucial to me) done, they should be cranking out at least three new lenses a year. It really doesn't feel like that is too much to ask for.

They probably won't risk expanding R&D, because after filling the gaps in the lenses line they may have to shrink again and fire staff.

I saw some examples for such behaviour in my former profession. I remember one case, when a big company placed a very big order with one of our competitors for a special model (metrology equipment). They refused to take that order, as it would have either needed big investments in buildings, machinery, and staff, or it would have blocked any normal production for several years. What happened in the end, was that the ordering company just bought the manufacturer, and took the risk themselves.

Think also about Boeing and Airbus: the media proudly announce if one of them gathered much more orders than the other, which is absolutely meaningless. Production of both companies is booked out for more than a decade already. But none of them risks strongly expanding production - what to do if orders decrease a lot in the future?

EDIT:
We just see the same problem with railways. None of the manufacturers (European or Canadian) can deliver on time. 1-2 years late must now be expected. The manufacturers just pay for the delay, probably had it in the calculation of their offerings anyway. Do they expand their production lines? No, they presently all are shrinking them (and some of them are booked out for many years, too).

mee · 08-11-2017, 08:42 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by clackers

(Laughs)

Gloomy Gearheads lack the attitude to be good photographers, IMHO. Perhaps that's why they don't seem to post their photos on this forum. They're aware of it.

In my experience, they're no fun for people to pose for (the resulting expressions are indecisive/defensive), and they're a real drag to shoot beside.

And I believe creativity should be a team sport.

Perhaps. Yet I've seen photographers with rather detestable attitudes create fantastic work esp when it comes to landscape, nature, and architecture work. Artists can be an interesting bunch. I guess one wouldn't want someone angry as their portrait or wedding photog though...

Some people just don't feel the need to share their work on a discussion forum though. Be it because they are confident in their work and skill (don't need the empty kudos), value their privacy, or just don't see the value in sharing their work on such a medium. There are lots of reasons for that.. more than just those three... and not just because they may or may not have a 'good' attitude.

08-11-2017, 08:01 AM - 1 Like	#1558
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by mee Some of the 'discussions' I've seen on other brand's forums could easily be mistaken as ours, just replace their brand with ours in the text and they'd read the same. It is rather uncanny. (Laughs) Gloomy Gearheads lack the attitude to be good photographers, IMHO. Perhaps that's why they don't seem to post their photos on this forum. They're aware of it. In my experience, they're no fun for people to pose for (the resulting expressions are indecisive/defensive), and they're a real drag to shoot beside. And I believe creativity should be a team sport. Last edited by clackers; 08-11-2017 at 08:11 AM.

08-11-2017, 08:35 AM	#1559
RKKS08 Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Frankfurt am Main Posts: 1,241	Originally posted by Rondec A slower release schedule for full frame lenses is probably fine once they get the line up filled out, but till they get the basic primes (ultra wide prime, 50 and 85 -- I know there is a 35-ish prime as well, but since we have the FA 31, that one isn't crucial to me) done, they should be cranking out at least three new lenses a year. It really doesn't feel like that is too much to ask for. They probably won't risk expanding R&D, because after filling the gaps in the lenses line they may have to shrink again and fire staff. I saw some examples for such behaviour in my former profession. I remember one case, when a big company placed a very big order with one of our competitors for a special model (metrology equipment). They refused to take that order, as it would have either needed big investments in buildings, machinery, and staff, or it would have blocked any normal production for several years. What happened in the end, was that the ordering company just bought the manufacturer, and took the risk themselves. Think also about Boeing and Airbus: the media proudly announce if one of them gathered much more orders than the other, which is absolutely meaningless. Production of both companies is booked out for more than a decade already. But none of them risks strongly expanding production - what to do if orders decrease a lot in the future? EDIT: We just see the same problem with railways. None of the manufacturers (European or Canadian) can deliver on time. 1-2 years late must now be expected. The manufacturers just pay for the delay, probably had it in the calculation of their offerings anyway. Do they expand their production lines? No, they presently all are shrinking them (and some of them are booked out for many years, too). Last edited by RKKS08; 08-11-2017 at 08:48 AM. Reason: Expanded

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08-07-2017, 01:28 PM	#1546
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by beholder3 You have not understood the market message: Go high margin or die. The very last thing anyone should waste resources on is "affordable". OEM lenses for less than $1.000 (the cheap part of the market) are absolute not what they need. Pentax already has an affordable DA 50, which punches above its price. There also is a reason why neither Canon nor Nikon have any competitive 50mm primes out there. The 50/1.2 sucks as much as the 58/1.4 sucks. Interrestingly, for the past 10 years until 2 years ago, Pentax took the cheap, high value wagon and they didn't do that well but they managed. Since 2 years they dediced to go high end on the lenses side with expensive FF lenses and a cheap FF body. The expensive lenses didn't match at all the Pentax profile, its overall performance, R&D investment as well as its value as high end brand. This kind of things take years to build and need to correspond R&D that Pentax can't achieve by itself. It isn't better to target highend or low end. This is just a different target. People can make lot of money on cheap or expensive things. The problem is that the highend market is something like 5-10% of the sales and everybody is in. And checking all the brands for highend products, the weakest brand by far is Pentax. They have difficulties with innovation and R&D and this is much more acceptable for entry level than high end. 90-95% of the market is still value based and basically Canon, Sony, Panasonic and Olympus are marking lot of money there. It allows them to recoup R&D cost, to be present in all shops and to be recognized so that when people upgrade they stay with the brand. It isn't because all player try to go highend that the market is going highend exclusively. The most likely consequence in a shriking market like that is that there will be a terrible war with quite a few kills. Pentax is well positionned to be part of the killed. Canon, Sony and Fuji are well placed to take the other actors share of the market. In particular for the highend.

08-09-2017, 11:12 PM	#1547
nzondlo Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Scranton, PA Posts: 186	Originally posted by biz-engineer The 50 and 35 on FF aren't best FL for portraiture, very fast doesn't help Instagram portrait photographers are all 35's and 50's these days. and I have a few friends making good use of their Sigma Art 24 1.4 They all take some beautiful pictures.

08-10-2017, 02:46 AM - 1 Like	#1548
mannyquinto Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: manila Posts: 152	Originally posted by Rondec I just want them to release "something." It has been awhile since they released the 15-30 and 18-105 with the promise of primes to come... I second Rondec's, please Ricoh announce and release something ......

08-10-2017, 02:58 PM	#1549
shardulm Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Cumming, GA Posts: 793	Originally posted by nzondlo Instagram portrait photographers are all 35's and 50's these days. and I have a few friends making good use of their Sigma Art 24 1.4 They all take some beautiful pictures. Although I am tending to agree on the 50mm FL, the 35mm isnt quiet there for portraiture. Instagram photos are more passport styled photos which may be done using a 35mm FL but are are not the same as the exotic (sharp and great bokeh) ones produced by longer FLs.

08-10-2017, 03:11 PM	#1550
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by Nicolas06 Pentax is well positionned to be part of the killed. They don't get killed , they discretely withdraw so that they can keep cashing in from existing inventory.

08-10-2017, 03:39 PM - 1 Like	#1551
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Sooo... if potential customers are reading this forum, what would they think? "Oh, boy, even the most ardent Pentax fans are talking about Pentax being killed... things must be dire indeed!". Well done! By the way, I don't believe in an all-out war between the traditional camera companies; and the other one - that-which-shall-not-be-named - apparently gave up on flooding the market with countless models. Such wars are expensive, and I doubt they would recover the costs.

08-11-2017, 06:32 AM	#1552
banep Banned Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 360	Originally posted by Kunzite Sooo... if potential customers are reading this forum, what would they think? "Oh, boy, even the most ardent Pentax fans are talking about Pentax being killed... things must be dire indeed!". Well done! Nooooo!!! We strongly believe that DFA*50 1.4 is coming and will be out for the 100th aniversary of Asahi Optical Co or even sooner.

08-11-2017, 06:39 AM	#1553
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by Kunzite Sooo... if potential customers are reading this forum, what would they think? "Oh, boy, even the most ardent Pentax fans are talking about Pentax being killed... things must be dire indeed!". Well done! I'm not sure that is our fault. It isn't our job to protect the brand, we're not on salary. If people have a certain feeling about the brand, then it would be a lie to oppose your opinion publically just to save face for the brand. We're not fanbois per say.. we're Pentax users, but only as long as the brand meets our 'needs'. Besides, Adam has news and rumors at the top of the forums listings. If he was really concerned he could move this lower in the sections or just remove rumor speak altogether. And the same talks have been ongoing on Nikon forums and lots of bellyaching on Canon and Sony sites too. It happens.

08-11-2017, 06:58 AM - 1 Like	#1554
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by mee And the same talks have been ongoing on Nikon forums and lots of bellyaching on Canon and Sony sites too. It happens. What a joyless, unlikable bunch we photographers are.

08-11-2017, 07:01 AM - 1 Like	#1555
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by Kunzite Sooo... if potential customers are reading this forum, what would they think? "Oh, boy, even the most ardent Pentax fans are talking about Pentax being killed... things must be dire indeed!". Well done! By the way, I don't believe in an all-out war between the traditional camera companies; and the other one - that-which-shall-not-be-named - apparently gave up on flooding the market with countless models. Such wars are expensive, and I doubt they would recover the costs. Our job isn't really to protect Pentax -- that's their job. All they would need to do is make some statements, do a little advertising on social media, update the road map, or even release a new product. Anything along those lines would help out. I don't think Pentaxians are really a rabid bunch of fellows looking to bad mouth the company, but there has just been little info or products forthcoming since the release of the K-1 and the lenses that came out with it.

08-11-2017, 07:35 AM - 1 Like	#1556
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by clackers What a joyless, unlikable bunch we photographers are. Some of the 'discussions' I've seen on other brand's forums could easily be mistaken as ours, just replace their brand with ours in the text and they'd read the same. It is rather uncanny. (Generally speaking,) I think we're spoiled in the camera world.. we've had so many new gizmos for the past decade, that it has melted our brains into thinking that level and speed of continual advancement was normal. We've grown accustom to it... but do we settle back into the 80s and early 90s speed of product releases soon? Flagships every 5+ years and lower expectations on sales? It seems, to me, that is where Ricoh is going.. but I can't help but also think the mindset of customers (me included) is still largely on the high speed release mindset. So there is a disparity between the company's mindset and the consumer's mindset.

08-11-2017, 07:52 AM - 1 Like	#1557
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	A slower release schedule for full frame lenses is probably fine once they get the line up filled out, but till they get the basic primes (ultra wide prime, 50 and 85 -- I know there is a 35-ish prime as well, but since we have the FA 31, that one isn't crucial to me) done, they should be cranking out at least three new lenses a year. It really doesn't feel like that is too much to ask for.

08-11-2017, 08:42 AM - 1 Like	#1560
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by clackers (Laughs) Gloomy Gearheads lack the attitude to be good photographers, IMHO. Perhaps that's why they don't seem to post their photos on this forum. They're aware of it. In my experience, they're no fun for people to pose for (the resulting expressions are indecisive/defensive), and they're a real drag to shoot beside. And I believe creativity should be a team sport. Perhaps. Yet I've seen photographers with rather detestable attitudes create fantastic work esp when it comes to landscape, nature, and architecture work. Artists can be an interesting bunch. I guess one wouldn't want someone angry as their portrait or wedding photog though... Some people just don't feel the need to share their work on a discussion forum though. Be it because they are confident in their work and skill (don't need the empty kudos), value their privacy, or just don't see the value in sharing their work on such a medium. There are lots of reasons for that.. more than just those three... and not just because they may or may not have a 'good' attitude.