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photoptimist · 02-22-2018, 06:04 PM - **8 Likes**

Originally posted by BigMackCam

It's times like these that I like to roll out the optical formula for one of my favourite lenses, the Tair-3 300mm f/4.5...

Who's the daddy now, eh?

Clearly a Tamron rebadge! ;-)

IgorZ · 02-22-2018, 08:35 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by BigMackCam

It's times like these that I like to roll out the optical formula for one of my favourite lenses, the Tair-3 300mm f/4.5...

Who's the daddy now, eh?

I don't have that one, but I do have tair 11, which I think is a similar design. What was the outcome of that debate about whether simpler designs create more 3D looking images? Now that there's nothing to debate regarding Mk II specs, we need something else to argue about, don't we?

halimj7 · 02-22-2018, 08:59 PM

Bismillah

I want this lens and will buy if the AF is quick and IQ is as good as I think.

**BigMackCam** · 02-23-2018, 01:16 AM

Originally posted by clackers

Whoa! That's caveman stuff ... good pictures, though?

Indeed

And yes... remarkably good. It's sharp, contrast is OK (for a vintage lens) and the out-of-focus rendering is lovely. Not much in the way of CA either. About the only downside is that it's heavy, so really needs to be tripod mounted for extended use. Oh, and the Photosniper versions have a rather crude focusing mechanism. But it works

robjmitchell · 02-23-2018, 02:15 AM

Originally posted by IgorZ

What was the outcome of that debate about whether simpler designs create more 3D looking images?

The 3D look is a function of micro contrast IMO. Lenses with less elements and better coatings are going to do well. The DFA*70-200 does 3D and has 19 elements but with HD and Aerobright 2 coatings you would get about 4% transmission losses. If that was multicoat from a 3rd party you would get about 15% loss. The sigma 50 art would be looking at 10% losses. 43ltd that rocks the 3D universe would be about 2%.

Obviously microcontrast and transmission are two different things but anything that is interfering with light transmission is a bad thing.

D1N0 · 02-24-2018, 02:18 AM

Ricoh probably decided to earn back development costs by licensing the design to Tokina. Sadly it will mean that Canon and Nikon shooters can buy our lens cheaper than we can.

robjmitchell · 02-24-2018, 03:18 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by D1N0

Ricoh probably decided to earn back development costs by licensing the design to Tokina. Sadly it will mean that Canon and Nikon shooters can buy our lens cheaper than we can.

But but but Ricoh cant licence out the DFA* to Tokina because it was meant to be a rebadged Sigma art!

**Rondec** · 02-24-2018, 03:30 AM

Originally posted by D1N0

Ricoh probably decided to earn back development costs by licensing the design to Tokina. Sadly it will mean that Canon and Nikon shooters can buy our lens cheaper than we can.

I'm not sure if you are serious, but I don't see any evidence of collaberation between Pentax and Tokina for years. Judging a lens based on size and the fact that it has a certain style of aperture doesn't mean anything. The question is what the optical formula of the Tokina is and that's exactly what we don't know right now.

Even if the lenses were optically the same, they could have very difference in performance due to the fact that Tokina backward engineers their lenses onto other mounts, has different coatings, and probably has different lens motors.

beholder3 · 02-24-2018, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Co designed in Tokyo.

Patented by Pentax Ricoh ,my currently information about the new 50.

The development team belonging the master of the great *2.8 70-200.

Best regards

source: asahi man

D1N0 · 02-24-2018, 04:39 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

I'm not sure if you are serious,

I am. The lenses are just too similar and the fact Asahi Man says they are co-designed.

**clackers** · 02-24-2018, 05:26 AM

Originally posted by beholder3

source: asahi man

Okay, FWIW, the DFA 70-200 was done by Masakazu Saori, Pentax's current chief lens designer, according to forum member Douglas of Sweden.

superpowerpinger · 02-24-2018, 06:18 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by clackers

Okay, FWIW, the DFA 70-200 was done by Masakazu Saori, Pentax's current chief lens designer, according to forum member Douglas of Sweden.

Looks like that's the case:

HD PENTAX-D FA★ 70-200mmF2.8ED DC AW | RICOH IMAGING

Franc · 02-24-2018, 06:54 AM

Originally posted by D1N0

I am. The lenses are just too similar and the fact Asahi Man says they are co-designed.

just look at the patent and you know your answer.

biz-engineer · 02-24-2018, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by D1N0

The lenses are just too similar

oh yeah, they look the same , except the name on the lens. Tokina is good, too bad I don't want a 50mm. Gotta have to wait for Tokina to make the 85mm and 20mm.

beholder3 · 02-24-2018, 07:30 AM

I see no issues with Pentax again licensing a lens to Tokina. Nothing to loose here. On the other side it generates income for Pentax for which they can do other things. Or maybe they can even share their limited production capacities, which would be even better.

02-24-2018, 07:06 AM	#2909
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,252	Originally posted by D1N0 The lenses are just too similar oh yeah, they look the same , except the name on the lens. Tokina is good, too bad I don't want a 50mm. Gotta have to wait for Tokina to make the 85mm and 20mm. Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-24-2018 at 07:13 AM.

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02-22-2018, 06:04 PM - 8 Likes	#2896
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,129	Originally posted by BigMackCam It's times like these that I like to roll out the optical formula for one of my favourite lenses, the Tair-3 300mm f/4.5... Who's the daddy now, eh? Clearly a Tamron rebadge! ;-)

02-22-2018, 08:35 PM - 1 Like	#2897
IgorZ Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Ottawa Posts: 1,735	Originally posted by BigMackCam It's times like these that I like to roll out the optical formula for one of my favourite lenses, the Tair-3 300mm f/4.5... Who's the daddy now, eh? I don't have that one, but I do have tair 11, which I think is a similar design. What was the outcome of that debate about whether simpler designs create more 3D looking images? Now that there's nothing to debate regarding Mk II specs, we need something else to argue about, don't we?

02-22-2018, 08:59 PM	#2898
halimj7 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 76	Bismillah I want this lens and will buy if the AF is quick and IQ is as good as I think.

02-23-2018, 01:16 AM	#2899
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,704	Originally posted by clackers Whoa! That's caveman stuff ... good pictures, though? Indeed And yes... remarkably good. It's sharp, contrast is OK (for a vintage lens) and the out-of-focus rendering is lovely. Not much in the way of CA either. About the only downside is that it's heavy, so really needs to be tripod mounted for extended use. Oh, and the Photosniper versions have a rather crude focusing mechanism. But it works

02-23-2018, 02:15 AM	#2900
robjmitchell Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne Aus Posts: 1,776	Originally posted by IgorZ What was the outcome of that debate about whether simpler designs create more 3D looking images? The 3D look is a function of micro contrast IMO. Lenses with less elements and better coatings are going to do well. The DFA*70-200 does 3D and has 19 elements but with HD and Aerobright 2 coatings you would get about 4% transmission losses. If that was multicoat from a 3rd party you would get about 15% loss. The sigma 50 art would be looking at 10% losses. 43ltd that rocks the 3D universe would be about 2%. Obviously microcontrast and transmission are two different things but anything that is interfering with light transmission is a bad thing.

02-24-2018, 02:18 AM	#2901
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Ricoh probably decided to earn back development costs by licensing the design to Tokina. Sadly it will mean that Canon and Nikon shooters can buy our lens cheaper than we can.

02-24-2018, 03:18 AM - 2 Likes	#2902
robjmitchell Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne Aus Posts: 1,776	Originally posted by D1N0 Ricoh probably decided to earn back development costs by licensing the design to Tokina. Sadly it will mean that Canon and Nikon shooters can buy our lens cheaper than we can. But but but Ricoh cant licence out the DFA* to Tokina because it was meant to be a rebadged Sigma art!

02-24-2018, 03:30 AM	#2903
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,666	Originally posted by D1N0 Ricoh probably decided to earn back development costs by licensing the design to Tokina. Sadly it will mean that Canon and Nikon shooters can buy our lens cheaper than we can. I'm not sure if you are serious, but I don't see any evidence of collaberation between Pentax and Tokina for years. Judging a lens based on size and the fact that it has a certain style of aperture doesn't mean anything. The question is what the optical formula of the Tokina is and that's exactly what we don't know right now. Even if the lenses were optically the same, they could have very difference in performance due to the fact that Tokina backward engineers their lenses onto other mounts, has different coatings, and probably has different lens motors.

02-24-2018, 03:55 AM	#2904
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	Quote: Co designed in Tokyo. Patented by Pentax Ricoh ,my currently information about the new 50. The development team belonging the master of the great *2.8 70-200. Best regards source: asahi man

02-24-2018, 04:39 AM	#2905
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Originally posted by Rondec I'm not sure if you are serious, I am. The lenses are just too similar and the fact Asahi Man says they are co-designed.

02-24-2018, 05:26 AM	#2906
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by beholder3 source: asahi man Okay, FWIW, the DFA 70-200 was done by Masakazu Saori, Pentax's current chief lens designer, according to forum member Douglas of Sweden.

02-24-2018, 06:18 AM - 1 Like	#2907
superpowerpinger Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 106	Originally posted by clackers Okay, FWIW, the DFA 70-200 was done by Masakazu Saori, Pentax's current chief lens designer, according to forum member Douglas of Sweden. Looks like that's the case: HD PENTAX-D FA★ 70-200mmF2.8ED DC AW \| RICOH IMAGING

02-24-2018, 06:54 AM	#2908
Franc Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Hoevelaken Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,214	Originally posted by D1N0 I am. The lenses are just too similar and the fact Asahi Man says they are co-designed. just look at the patent and you know your answer.

02-24-2018, 07:30 AM	#2910
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112	I see no issues with Pentax again licensing a lens to Tokina. Nothing to loose here. On the other side it generates income for Pentax for which they can do other things. Or maybe they can even share their limited production capacities, which would be even better.

DFA*50 1.4 coming

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