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02-25-2017, 06:10 AM   #166
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Are you sure?

02-25-2017, 06:34 AM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Are you able to speak of the design process?

I mean specifically I am wondering if maybe the design flow will speed up as they build each lens.. so the 70-200 took a VERY long time to come out, but the design flow is now set so the 50 is a bit quicker to draft, design, and manufacturer.. and from there on it is more a template of sorts.. basically building off of each new D-FA and improving/refining the design process. As a result, perhaps taking less time to go from idea to store shelf?

Or is that not how it works?
It is considerably easier to produce a high quality prime than it is to produce a zoom like the D-FA* 70-200mm. I think we see the 50mm late this year. Ricoh does seem to be painfully slow. The report says that the 50mm on display didn't even have glass in it, so they probably don't even have a working unit in testing yet. Or maybe Ricoh cares nothing about marketing.
02-25-2017, 06:46 AM - 1 Like   #168
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I guess the thing is, a year from now, it will all be ancient history.
02-25-2017, 07:03 AM - 1 Like   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
It is considerably easier to produce a high quality prime than it is to produce a zoom like the D-FA* 70-200mm. I think we see the 50mm late this year. Ricoh does seem to be painfully slow. The report says that the 50mm on display didn't even have glass in it, so they probably don't even have a working unit in testing yet. Or maybe Ricoh cares nothing about marketing.
Hm...

QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man:
The 50 is currently in production for a little preseries and will go in full production next time.
You can make you a nice Christmas present.


The 85 is still in prototype condition.
With very much luck we will see it as preseries end of this year.
Maybe faster,but no more real information this time.
But it's a complete new optical construction,like the new 50.


02-25-2017, 07:07 AM   #170
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
According to the guy who's leading the D FA★ 85mm F1.4 development team.
There is no doubt Mr. Masakazu Saori,I think.
02-25-2017, 07:08 AM - 1 Like   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I guess the thing is, a year from now, it will all be ancient history.
And, in the best scenario, we'll all be a year older
02-25-2017, 07:15 AM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
It is considerably easier to produce a high quality prime than it is to produce a zoom like the D-FA* 70-200mm. I think we see the 50mm late this year. Ricoh does seem to be painfully slow. The report says that the 50mm on display didn't even have glass in it, so they probably don't even have a working unit in testing yet. Or maybe Ricoh cares nothing about marketing.
Yes but that isn't what was considering. I wanted to know if the ground work laid by the D-FA* 70-200mm has aided in the speed of development of further D-FA* lenses. I suspect they're in the same vein. And, further, if with each D-FA* the work becomes easier as they can take their design mindset and physical design processes and hone them more finely? Or are these individual teams not thoroughly working with each other? Is the design process already as fine as they see fit?

I'm not sure you can answer that one. It was a question more for asahiman, kenspo, and those with direct access to Ricoh Imaging. I'm not even sure they can answer it.. curious though.
02-25-2017, 08:02 AM - 1 Like   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Yes but that isn't what was considering. I wanted to know if the ground work laid by the D-FA* 70-200mm has aided in the speed of development of further D-FA* lenses. I suspect they're in the same vein. And, further, if with each D-FA* the work becomes easier as they can take their design mindset and physical design processes and hone them more finely? Or are these individual teams not thoroughly working with each other? Is the design process already as fine as they see fit?

I'm not sure you can answer that one. It was a question more for asahiman, kenspo, and those with direct access to Ricoh Imaging. I'm not even sure they can answer it.. curious though.
Does what you did on a 70-200 zoom help with what you have to do on a 50 prime. My guess is going to be no. I mean you are already a lens designer, so you have the basic skill set. My guess is a 50 prime presents a different set of problems than a 70-200 zoom. But maybe some lens designer will correct me.

02-25-2017, 08:12 AM - 3 Likes   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
It is considerably easier to produce a high quality prime than it is to produce a zoom like the D-FA* 70-200mm. I think we see the 50mm late this year. Ricoh does seem to be painfully slow. The report says that the 50mm on display didn't even have glass in it, so they probably don't even have a working unit in testing yet. Or maybe Ricoh cares nothing about marketing.
I would not read much into the empty lens shell at CP+. To a large extent, the prototyping of the optics and the prototyping of the case can be parallel activities. Ricoh almost certainly has some butt-ugly brassboard prototypes of the optics lurking the R&D labs but those are not suitable for show.

Older primes may have been simple, but newer, high-performance primes are more like zooms in having internal focus and floating elements (i.e., more than one moving internal subassembly just like a zoom). Both the Otus 55/1.4 and Sigma 50/1.4 have a dozen or more elements (nearly twice the number of the old FA 50/1.4).


What's interesting is that RIcoh also makes copiers which, like high-end cameras are in a declining industry. But that does not mean a company cannot thrive. They just have to be careful.

The typical technology growth industry strategy of grabbing marketshare at any cost is very popular for smartphones and other fast-paced consumer electronics. But it is utterly wrong for mature or declining industries -- it's a recipe for bankruptcy. I think Ricoh knows this and are investing more modestly in R&D to create viable products at a sustainable pace. I tend to believe kenspo's assertions that Pentax has exciting things going on but also suspect that it's going to be a slow stream of new products rather than a blast that releases brand-new portfolios of products all at once.
02-25-2017, 08:16 AM - 2 Likes   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Yes but that isn't what was considering. I wanted to know if the ground work laid by the D-FA* 70-200mm has aided in the speed of development of further D-FA* lenses. I suspect they're in the same vein. And, further, if with each D-FA* the work becomes easier as they can take their design mindset and physical design processes and hone them more finely? Or are these individual teams not thoroughly working with each other? Is the design process already as fine as they see fit?

I'm not sure you can answer that one. It was a question more for asahiman, kenspo, and those with direct access to Ricoh Imaging. I'm not even sure they can answer it.. curious though.
I doubt anyone here has that level of access to the process. I don't think there is more than one team. We have yet to see lenses get developed in parallel which we should see if there were multiple design teams working on different lenses. Ricoh appears to design and produce one lens than then move to the next one. When we have seen them release multiple lenses it has been with 3rd party designs. There are several interviews that have been done with Sigma and Zeiss over the years discussing the lens design process. I doubt Ricoh processes are significantly different than those two, just on a smaller scale.

---------- Post added 02-25-17 at 09:27 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
I would not read much into the empty lens shell at CP+. To a large extent, the prototyping of the optics and the prototyping of the case can be parallel activities. Ricoh almost certainly has some butt-ugly brassboard prototypes of the optics lurking the R&D labs but those are not suitable for show.
That is kind of my point. They are still in the prototyping phase. If they had actual pre-production lenses in testing then they should have had one on display. What is the cycle for pre-production testing? How many months? Then how many months does it take to tool up for and go into full production and distribution? I don't think we see a lens until late this year at best. Ricoh did an interview talking about the D-FA* 70-200m and how a design/manufacturing flaw creating CA appeared in the pre-production testing that did not show up in the computer modeling. I'm sure someone can find the interview here on PF.
02-25-2017, 09:41 AM   #176
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Looking back one 2 years ago, they only had a 3D-printed mock-up of the K-1, but obviously they had various working prototypes - and they released the camera one year later.
This lens, it's not a 3D-printed mock-up; the barrel looks in a quite advanced stage (so much they had to cover part of the inscription). That it doesn't have lenses? Why would it need such things, since nobody's allowed to shoot with it?
02-25-2017, 10:19 AM   #177
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
This lens, it's not a 3D-printed mock-up; the barrel looks in a quite advanced stage (so much they had to cover part of the inscription). That it doesn't have lenses? Why would it need such things, since nobody's allowed to shoot with it?
This mock up is empty inside.
02-25-2017, 10:38 AM - 1 Like   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
This mock up is empty inside.
That's what they want you to think
02-25-2017, 10:48 AM - 2 Likes   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
(...)
This lens, it's not a 3D-printed mock-up; the barrel looks in a quite advanced stage (so much they had to cover part of the inscription). (...)
Are you sure? This looks a lot like a 3D-printed barrel to me:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/content/uploads/files/1/p1953/_IMG0271.jpg
02-25-2017, 10:50 AM - 2 Likes   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
This mock up is empty inside.
Maybe it's a Coffee mug.
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