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03-13-2017, 02:48 AM   #226
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QuoteOriginally posted by gorme Quote
It would. But you simply cannot make a sensor that behaves like film from an optical point of view and with existing CCD/CMOS/BSI CMOS technology.
Just to name them, the maximum chief ray angle and the thickness of the absorbing layer are simply not the same... This can be seen in wide angle lenses mainly and usually brings 'more vignetting than on film' and 'worse corner resolution than on film'...
It can be done with affixed 645Z sensor, so, the lens projects what it can, and you decide what is worthwhile.
I mean, all these things could have been done easily in film times, but today all is too complicated. There is no way a company would allow such a freedom of expression anymore, or experimentation with their equipment.

03-13-2017, 05:24 AM - 1 Like   #227
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
If would be ways cheaper for Pentax team to come with a new camera totally suited for older lenses (that is, one point AF; manual focus with split prism, 100% OVF, knobs ala KP, etc), than to redesign old lenses to suit today's cameras.
I have to assume that the "old" glass is still selling well. Pentax will not change anything, but putting out a new DFA* line on the side. When the new f/1.4 is out (need at least 3 lenses), you can think about bringing out an f/2 line to replace FA* glass, but only after the f/1.4 sold well as you donīt want the f/2 glass to canibalize your top glass. This line will be derived from the f/1.4 line to ease design. So do not expect "updates", but expect new designs. The DA ltds will probably be the only updated lens series in a long time.
Afterwards the question arises whether more primes are needed or high quality zooms with f/4 instead of f/2.8. In the meantime also some budget zooms have to be developed that sell easily if you want to earn money. Alls this will require 3-5 years... at least.
In other words. Expect a DFA85 in the near future maybe a 35 as well. The rest is in the stars.
03-13-2017, 11:00 AM   #228
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
If would be ways cheaper for Pentax team to come with a new camera totally suited for older lenses (that is, one point AF; manual focus with split prism, 100% OVF, knobs ala KP, etc), than to redesign old lenses to suit today's cameras.
Probably. But it would not sell, would be torched by most review sites and so would cost much more in the end because ROI would be too low.
03-13-2017, 12:59 PM - 5 Likes   #229
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Are all the compact primes gone? I se 4-5 in my bag. New lenses needs to keep up with new sensors and technology. The small primes can't. Thats why they need to make these new big boys
This is the point. I love my FA77 but it doesn't resolve what those Nikon 85mm monsters do. Or focus as well (and no, a $1800 lens is not $1000 of snake oil and as good as an $800 with half the corrective optics). At some point, if you're making a $2000 camera, people who want small aren't buying it. People who want quality and high resolution are. That's the audience that needs to be sold to. Otherwise, what Pentax is going to find is that people will upgrade from their APS-C line to FF and be satisfied for a while until they decide they need MOAR MOAR MOAR. If Pentax can't deliver that, the next camera will be a Nikon or Canon.

03-13-2017, 01:57 PM - 2 Likes   #230
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QuoteOriginally posted by MadMathMind Quote
At some point, if you're making a $2000 camera, people who want small aren't buying it. People who want quality and high resolution are. That's the audience that needs to be sold to.
Well said! I do hope that Pentax executives read this comment.

I didn't buy my K1 because it's small and can take small lenses, just the opposite. I bought my K1 to get the ultimate in resolution and IQ and to heck with the size of the lenses.
03-13-2017, 02:12 PM   #231
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There are posts above that I cannot read, but I do not believe the FA Limiteds will be updated, for the reasons stated above. I believe they will continue as they are until people stop buying them. I believe Pentax will release self-designed, modern prime FF lenses in more traditional focal lengths.
03-13-2017, 04:06 PM   #232
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Probably. But it would not sell, would be torched by most review sites and so would cost much more in the end because ROI would be too low.
Exactly. That is proposed solution only to show that the story of FA Ltd lenses is sealed. They will never come renewed.
New primes will come, and as Monochrome stated, in more traditional focal lengths.
03-13-2017, 04:10 PM   #233
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
There are posts above that I cannot read, but I do not believe the FA Limiteds will be updated, for the reasons stated above. I believe they will continue as they are until people stop buying them. I believe Pentax will release self-designed, modern prime FF lenses in more traditional focal lengths.
There's no reason why they can't offer both. While not sealed, the FA limited are small and have a certain appeal. They can be sold in conjunction with modern lenses, perhaps with reduced prices since the development cost has been more than recovered at this point.

03-13-2017, 04:30 PM   #234
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QuoteOriginally posted by MadMathMind Quote
There's no reason why they can't offer both. While not sealed, the FA limited are small and have a certain appeal. They can be sold in conjunction with modern lenses, perhaps with reduced prices since the development cost has been more than recovered at this point.
I expect Pentax will continue making and selling FA Limiteds, just as they are, until people stop buying them.

I don't expect Pentax to lower the price until people are no longer willing to pay the current price. Why lower the profit on lenses whose costs are fully recovered, as long as people still buy them?
03-13-2017, 04:35 PM - 2 Likes   #235
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I don't expect Pentax to lower the price until people are no longer willing to pay the current price. Why lower the profit on lenses whose costs are fully recovered, as long as people still buy them?
For sure. I just think it's going to be hard to sell a $1000 FA31 with questionable wide-open contrast that's not sealed next to a $1300 modern lens that doesn't have those issues. The FA43 might be priced perfectly already between the DA50 and upcoming DFA*50; the FA77...not sure. The DFA*85 is going to be really expensive, so the price point of the FA77 might be perfect.

But Pentax does need a cheaper 70-85mm FF lens. The DA70 works ok but it's a bit slow and the DA line is "crop lens that kinda work on FF, with a few exceptions we're willing to say are 100% good (but not put that on the box)." Both Canon and Nikon have something 85mm f/1.8 lenses that are not pricey. Pentax needs one as well. A refresh of the FA77 might be the ticket there.
03-13-2017, 05:11 PM   #236
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I expect Pentax will continue making and selling FA Limiteds, just as they are, until people stop buying them.

I don't expect Pentax to lower the price until people are no longer willing to pay the current price. Why lower the profit on lenses whose costs are fully recovered, as long as people still buy them?
The question, in my mind, is would Pentax sell more if they updated the packaging (but kept the price the same)?
03-13-2017, 05:35 PM   #237
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As I've written, until people stop buying them . . . suppositions and thinks aside, we won't know until we know. FA43 is almost 25 years old; the 77 is 18 and the 31 is 16.

And that takes us back to my original point that if Pentax refreshes them they're not the Princesses any more. Make new lenses, sell the Princesses as they are until people stop buying them and then retire them.

Pentax can't do anything until the current batch is exhausted anyway.

Last edited by monochrome; 03-14-2017 at 06:19 AM.
03-13-2017, 10:58 PM   #238
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QuoteOriginally posted by MadMathMind Quote
At some point, if you're making a $2000 camera, people who want small aren't buying it. People who want quality and high resolution are. That's the audience that needs to be sold to.
Guess you better change my signature. The FA 31, 43, 77, DFA 100, DFA 28-105 are all small lenses. I have one big lens for my K-1. It's great, but I do want small, too.
03-14-2017, 04:35 AM - 3 Likes   #239
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithedreamer Quote
Guess you better change my signature. The FA 31, 43, 77, DFA 100, DFA 28-105 are all small lenses. I have one big lens for my K-1. It's great, but I do want small, too.

Are you implying that you might feel the benefit of one or two pounds advantage of the weight quality of the lens does have way much more impact on your every day photography fun than changing the resolution quality of the lens from 2456 LP/PH to 2581 LP/PH which you are the only person to ever recognize but all the consumers of your images / your friends and family never?


Heresy! Sicko basement dwelling pixelpeepers: build up a pyre!





And don't start to mention size quality... Comfortably putting a good size quality lens in your jacket pocket versus having to drag around a big extra bag for a poorly designed lens with inferior size quality... Who want's to enjoy photography?


Don't we all want the early 1 pound cellphones back, which clearly had a better audio quality? A pro caller only uses 1 pound cellphones!
03-14-2017, 04:50 AM - 5 Likes   #240
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Big lenses have a place, as long as their image quality is a significant jump on their predecessors.

I just got a FA*85, and my first few shots with it have convinced me that it is indeed very special compared to my highly esteemed FA77.







But I'm not getting rid of the FA77. Ever. It may become more of a crop lens to me - perfect for head shots at roughly 115/2.4 full frame equivalent.

Will I consider the DFA*85? Maybe, but it will have to be *amazing*.
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