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03-18-2017, 05:18 PM - 1 Like   #286
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
I am totally, 100%, not in the market for an 85mm prime. So I'm uninformed; what makes folks say that the Canon 85 1.2 is "world's best"? The Siggy 85 Art seems quite well liked, Nikon has something there that is well spoken of, and Canon too. Maybe Zeiss has something here, Leica probably as well, not sure who else would be in the running.

Or, to put it another way, there's lots of good 85's out there right now, and I look forward to a Pentax star lens to help get new interest going for Ricoh.
The Canon's bokeh is otherworldly. The Nikon is a really nice lens too, but the Canon has a look to it that's immediately recognizable. A friend of mine shoots everything with it:
Mineralblu Photography - Photos | Facebook

He does almost no processing on his images (Lightroom only). The way the Canon renders images is just...unique. It has a power and clarity that is really alone.

Sigma's popularity, IMHO, is that they provide really sharp lenses at price points quite a bit under OEM lenses. I find them to be flat and kinda clinical in their image reproduction but a lot of people get all giddy about them.

03-18-2017, 05:38 PM - 1 Like   #287
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QuoteOriginally posted by MadMathMind Quote
The Canon's bokeh is otherworldly. The Nikon is a really nice lens too, but the Canon has a look to it that's immediately recognizable. A friend of mine shoots everything with it:
Mineralblu Photography - Photos | Facebook

He does almost no processing on his images (Lightroom only). The way the Canon renders images is just...unique. It has a power and clarity that is really alone.
I just had a look at that page, and I strongly disagree with your assessment. The subject matter is interesting (as cosplay people usually are), but the images are very soft, low in contrast and beset by severe purple fringing. There is nothing there that I prefer over my early, amateurish attempts with my FA*85.
03-18-2017, 06:32 PM - 2 Likes   #288
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
I just had a look at that page, and I strongly disagree with your assessment. The subject matter is interesting (as cosplay people usually are), but the images are very soft, low in contrast and beset by severe purple fringing. There is nothing there that I prefer over my early, amateurish attempts with my FA*85.
To be fair, you do know what Facebook does to images, right? It's utterly brutal. Everything is soft there and it totally destroys color gradients and kicks contrast in the face. Here's a comparison of my own shots. These are uncompressed PNGs so that recompression isn't an issue. I made these side-by-sides by using my original 2048px JPEG from my harddrive and then the same image downloaded from FB after I uploaded it.

Marissa.png - Google Drive

Sherry.png - Google Drive

The results on Marissa aren't so bad but you can see blockiness in her face and a significant loss of detail in her bodysuit. The image looks flat because it's overly soft. The sharpest parts are cut down significantly and the bokeh region is largely unaffected, so the result is a flat image that looks dull. But Sherry's shots...yikes. Her face is completely void of detail in her skin and the textures are just gone. In the original, you can differentiate her individual hairs and in the FB version, it's smoothed over and blobby.

TBH, posting them on FB makes me want to cry sometimes. It's sooooo bad! I have these beautiful, sharp images with wonderful contrast and FB is like "Vaseline filter, go!" <


The contrast, I believe, is 100% deliberate as well. Cosplayer and cosplay photographers don't seem to care for strong, bold images. The washed out look is incredibly popular. People fall over themselves for it. TBH, I think my refusal to adopt this style really limits my popularity. Here's another friend of mine: https://www.facebook.com/CerberusFotos/

His images are wildly popular. He posts something and people just go "OMG THIS IS THE BEST EVER." I post something...quiet. Very little attention. I don't think it's the poses or even the subject matter. I'm pretty sure it's entirely the editing. This is what the cosplay community wants. To say the least, it's really shaken my confidence in my photography...I've been growing less confidence as of late, actually....

Last edited by MadMathMind; 03-18-2017 at 06:55 PM.
03-18-2017, 07:38 PM - 2 Likes   #289
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Personally another massive prime doesn't appeal. I long for more FA Limited-like primes (D FA technology of course). Compact, relatively fast, superb IQ, able to fit a whole kit into a vest . . . the addition of compact 24mm and 135mm lenses (for me) would be awesome. Having to lug around massive primes just to get F 1.4 over F 1.8 isn't worth the tradeoffs. I hope Pentax doesn't forget devotees who chose their system because of the high end compact option.

03-18-2017, 10:18 PM   #290
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QuoteOriginally posted by LennyBloke Quote
But just think how many Second Hand A* and FA* 85's will surface to meet your LX needs
I had a new '81 and used '80, Not going back to MF. The Winder(had two)cost $110 every time the plastic gears broke.
03-19-2017, 02:41 AM - 1 Like   #291
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QuoteOriginally posted by MadMathMind Quote
This is what I do. After every trip, I make a count of every lens I used for each shot and calculate percentages. I do this for all my photoshoots too. I compile stats for each shoot, each convention, and then aggregate at the end of the year.
You really live your nickname!

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03-19-2017, 03:39 AM   #292
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QuoteOriginally posted by MadMathMind Quote
He does almost no processing on his images (Lightroom only). The way the Canon renders images is just...unique. It has a power and clarity that is really alone.
This is pure BS, every camera renders images paired with random lens in a UNIQUE way, specified by the combo itself
03-19-2017, 01:38 PM   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by MadMathMind Quote
To be fair, you do know what Facebook does to images, right? It's utterly brutal. Everything is soft there and it totally destroys color gradients and kicks contrast in the face. Here's a comparison of my own shots. These are uncompressed PNGs so that recompression isn't an issue. I made these side-by-sides by using my original 2048px JPEG from my harddrive and then the same image downloaded from FB after I uploaded it.

Marissa.png - Google Drive

Sherry.png - Google Drive

The results on Marissa aren't so bad but you can see blockiness in her face and a significant loss of detail in her bodysuit. The image looks flat because it's overly soft. The sharpest parts are cut down significantly and the bokeh region is largely unaffected, so the result is a flat image that looks dull. But Sherry's shots...yikes. Her face is completely void of detail in her skin and the textures are just gone. In the original, you can differentiate her individual hairs and in the FB version, it's smoothed over and blobby.

TBH, posting them on FB makes me want to cry sometimes. It's sooooo bad! I have these beautiful, sharp images with wonderful contrast and FB is like "Vaseline filter, go!" <


The contrast, I believe, is 100% deliberate as well. Cosplayer and cosplay photographers don't seem to care for strong, bold images. The washed out look is incredibly popular. People fall over themselves for it. TBH, I think my refusal to adopt this style really limits my popularity. Here's another friend of mine: Cerberus Fotos | Facebook

His images are wildly popular. He posts something and people just go "OMG THIS IS THE BEST EVER." I post something...quiet. Very little attention. I don't think it's the poses or even the subject matter. I'm pretty sure it's entirely the editing. This is what the cosplay community wants. To say the least, it's really shaken my confidence in my photography...I've been growing less confidence as of late, actually....
I think you do fine. Your issue probably has more to do with salesmanship than with talent or lenses or even post processing style.

I don't disagree that the Canon 50mm f1.2 L is a great lens, but I don't think it makes as much impact on images and frankly, for this style of image, even the FA 77 limited would be more than adequate.

Keep working hard at what you do and over time, your images will get the attention they deserve.

03-19-2017, 07:28 PM   #294
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QuoteOriginally posted by MadMathMind Quote
I think about $1400. North of $1500 is too much; Canon's f/1.2 is $1800-1900 and that's always going to be the pinnacle. You don't want someone saying "I can get the world's best 85mm for $300 more." $500 more, though, and that starts to get tough.
I sure hope you are about right on price. I am saving up for this one, will look great on the front of my KP and K3II! Over 1,500 or so and I am out they can keep it. I have been wanting to cover my prime gap between 55 to 300 with a fast prime and this is going to be the lens to do it!
03-20-2017, 12:39 AM - 1 Like   #295
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Since Pentax seems to be proclaiming itself as a niche, premium brand, my guess is very expensive, Kaisas.

So the smaller and cheaper 77mm and 70mm Ltds, manual lenses like the Samyang 85mm and legacy AF lenses like the Sigma 85mm f1.4 may be more realistic acquisitions for most forum members.

The D FA 24-70mm and 15-30mm were priced higher than the Tamrons available for Canikon because like this 85mm, there was no current K-mount version on sale.
The Tamron 24-70mm is actually more expensive for Canikon right now, and the 15-30mm is comparable in price.

I'm guessing Pentax has dropped their prices since the "Pentaxian" adopter phase is over, and now they're trying to lure newcomers who will care more about how Pentax stacks up to other systems as opposed Pentax owners already invested in the system who will loyally buy them up. These lenses are really needed for the K-1, and it shows in the sales demand. They are among the best selling lenses for K-mount despite being some of the most expensive.

In line with attracting new people to Pentax, the introduction of the new 50mm f/1.4 and 85mm f/1.4 (and 35mm likely) is desperately needed. A fast wide angle is also really crucial. While Pentax users would rather prefer a smaller but slow lens (like a f/4) with "great color rendition" but worse metrics in sharpness/distortion/vignetting over a larger but faster and sharper lens (f/1.4) and scores well on quantitative tests, the trend in the photography world as a whole is much more towards the bigger, faster, sharper lenses. Both reviews and the sales properties of these lenses are clearly going in this direction, and it would be writing your own death sentence to fight it in vain. Pentax is trying to do its best to balance making the older users happy with luring new users to our system with these new lenses. Pentax cannot grow and thrive if they only cater to their existing userbase (devoted as it is).

If say, Sigma (especially with their art series) or Tamron were still releasing lenses for K-Mount, then there would be less pressure for Pentax to make (or borrow designs for) new lenses. But without the 3rd parties to fill the gap, Pentax is left with a brilliant camera but without the lens ecosystem needed to draw in new buyers.

I really appreciate aspects of both lens design philosophies. I love the images that come out of the FA limited primes. Seeing the limiteds in action will convince a lot of people that quantitative metrics aren't everything, and sometimes the subjective character of a lens can make a big difference. They almost perfectly hit the sweet spot of portability, wide aperture, and image quality (in both senses). Now that I have a K-1, I'm strongly considering saving up for the 77mm. Yet I also appreciate and understand the really sharp, really fast, low optical aberration (but large and heavy) design philosophy of many modern lenses. The new lenses are capable of some astounding image quality, particularly on the high resolution, FF K-1. Using one of those lenses on the K-1 was incredible.

I even appreciate the excellent DA 35mm f/2.4 and DA 50mm f/1.8. Their sharpness and image quality is amazing for their value, and they are a great introduction to the Pentax design philosophy. They even work, with some limitations, on FF. However, I don't care at all for the slow and relatively pricey APS-C only primes. Stopping down from f/3.2 wide open to 5.6 or worse just to get an acceptable image is completely unacceptable imo. Being beaten in quantitative tests by high quality zooms which are comparable in cost is also ridiculous. Ultimately, a lens is for picture taking, and all of the lightness and fancy metal build quality in the world won't make a difference if the images you're getting aren't worth it.

I can only hope Pentax gets the new lenses out soon, and third party makers start up again too. While so many reviewers are singing the praises of the K-1, a lot of the same reviewers are also warning of the lack of modern lenses for the system, and so long as that continues it will drive away people who otherwise would have considered Pentax. Not only will the awesome K-1 benefit from the great new lenses, but a healthy lens ecosystem will help draw in new buyers. That's only a good thing for both Pentax and existing users! More people get to see the unique advantages offered by Pentax cameras, and the money will help fund further improvements to the cameras and lenses. New and better cameras will be great for both new and old users alike. A reactionary mindset towards these new advances isn't helpful, and in the competitive camera environment today, I think it will be hurtful to the long-term health of Pentax. New lenses can only benefit everyone.
03-20-2017, 02:24 AM - 2 Likes   #296
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QuoteOriginally posted by twomonger Quote
The Tamron 24-70mm is actually more expensive for Canikon right now, and the 15-30mm is comparable in price.
Maybe on discount in some shops. In my part of the world the 24-70 is €350 more than the tamron and the 15-30 is €500 more.
03-21-2017, 05:08 PM   #297
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Hi all, all this talk about lenses is really whetting my appetite but, here in Thailand the news from the Pentax dealer is you pay first and in about 45 days you might receive them, cannot say I am impressed with this so I think a trip to Singapore will be more fruitful. Ian
03-21-2017, 07:14 PM   #298
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QuoteOriginally posted by k1man Quote
Hi all, all this talk about lenses is really whetting my appetite but, here in Thailand the news from the Pentax dealer is you pay first and in about 45 days you might receive them, cannot say I am impressed with this so I think a trip to Singapore will be more fruitful. Ian
Just check the warranty implications of whatever you're doing, K1man.
03-21-2017, 08:34 PM   #299
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Hi clackers, never had a problem before but that being said nothing ever broke, bought the K7 with grip 6 lenses and a metz 44 from Sing. Canon Nikon easy to buy here but Pentax is sort of cheap charlie stuff. I am getting on a bit so try to buy here but they don"t make it easy. Ian
03-21-2017, 09:00 PM   #300
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QuoteOriginally posted by k1man Quote
Hi clackers, never had a problem before but that being said nothing ever broke,
I think the issue is what happens if it does break, Ian.

Best of luck from another Ian.



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