[twomonger]

I don't "make you funny" - whatever that means; but your attacks are laughable.
Please read my posts carefully and don't ignore relevant parts; as I just said:
"According to Photozone, the Sigma Art 20mm and 24mm are quite weak in the corners, unless stopped down. That is understandable, as making fast ultra wide-angle SLR lenses is not easy. However, it should also help us realize that Sigma Art lenses are neither perfect, nor magical - they're simply high-end lenses, which is precisely what Pentax is targeting with the new D FA* line."
I also said that I hope the Pentax ultra-wide is not a huge, heavy f/1.4 - so why are you asking me if I'm shooting landscapes at 20mm or 24mm at f/1.4-2? OTOH you were saying there will be no DFA20/1.4 and DFA24/1.4 - then ignoring the Sigmas' performance at those apertures.

I proved quite well that at least some Sigma Art lenses are not "close to perfect". While there are reasons for that, perfect means perfect and such weak corners, heavy vignetting etc. aren't "close to perfect".
It would be interesting to see Pentax tackling these challenges. But, I have every intention of buying... while you, from what I see, are interested in putting Pentax down.

Photozone tested both these lenses on the 50 MP 5DsR, and they are known for being towards the harsher side when reviewing lenses from all manufacturers. Look at the commentary on Canon's 24-70mm f/2.8 II, considered to be one of, if not the best 24-70 f/2.8 available. They only gave it 3.5 stars for optical quality. It's also telling of the decline in Pentax popularity that none of the DFA lenses have been tested by any of the major photoreview sites. Unfortunately it makes quantifying their performance more difficult.

While their 20mm and 24mm lenses aren't as optically "perfect" as their 35mm, 50mm, and 85mm, they are definitely at the top of the class compared to similar primes. Like you said, it's not easy to make those lenses. Every other 24mm f/1.4 suffers from even worse vignetting. The corners are very tough to make. So I think it's very reasonable to say that Sigma's Art primes are some of the best available, considering optical performance and price. Of course they are heavy, but that's the price you pay with the modern fast primes.

So Pentax has a high standard to surpass if they're gunning to beat Sigma's Art primes. Especially since the 50mm, 85mm, and 35mm (next rumored pentax lenses) are considered to be the best in the Art series.

There's been lots of discussion, lots of folks who prefer one lens or the other. I'd suggest the biggest difference between the two lenses is weight. And the Sigma seems to have been able to make their lens cheaper by adding a lot of weight. That's great if you're looking at a framing hammer instead of a claw hammer but in photography weight serves no practical purpose, and folks , whatever the medium should expect to pay a premium for light weight practical gear over gear that's so heavy, you really don't want to use it. In canoeing I can buy a fibreglass pig for $1000 or an ultra-light easy to carry boat for $4000, so with other outdoor gear, people pay ridiculous prices for lightweight gear. I like my Sigma 70, but it rarely gets used as I have the FA 50 macro and Tamron 90 macro. It's great lens, but most of the time it's a shelf ornamaent.

So my moto remains, use sigma if you can't afford the Pentax and are young enough to handle the extra weight. On occasion I can afford the Pentax, and every year the weight becomes harder and harder to manage. So Sigma loses on both of the critical criteria.

Of my 3 Sigma lenses, I have nothing I want to keep, long term.

The Otus line is $4000 and has similar performance/weight characteristics to Sigma's art line, with a similar design philosophy. So it's not about paying for a cheaper lens in terms of weight. It's probably getting rid of that last bit of aberrations and getting to the f/1.4 aperture that you pay for with that huge increase in size and weight. The 31mm also shows more light falloff even despite being at f/1.8. I personally would like to have both lenses. One for the best performance, regardless of weight, and the other for an optimal mix of weight and performance.

[dcpropilot]

70-200 does f/1.4 at 85mm ?

I can understand his frustration. I don't want an 85 mil but am in serious want of ff lenses not yet launched in K. At this point I'm probably close to jumping too. But am riding out a bit longer to see what happens. That said, everyone is different.

With that in mind, we can't objectively argue the IQ/rendering or handling of one lenses is vastly superior to the other for another person. If that person finds a lens good or bad that is a valid opinion. It is their (valid) opinion. Because these discussions are based around subjective claims.

sub·jec·tive
səbˈjektiv/
adjective
adjective: subjective
1.
based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.

Which is why these arguments tend to loop over and over and over again..

Last time I checked 85 fell between 70 and 200, and the 85 1.4 can still easily be found used.

[clackers]

DFA 85 \1.4 ?

FA 85 \ 1.4 is a good lens, but it is not sold new ....

It's the Samyang 85mm f1.4, Al. Manual Focus of course, but I've seen the pictures you've taken with the FA77 Limited on the 'Post your K-1 pictures' thread and manual focus would not be a problem for your skills and your static subjects.

You can also get the Sigma 85m f1.4 in K mount, the previous version, an excellent lens that few Pentaxians ever bought, perhaps because unlike Canon and Nikon owners they could buy the FA77..

And if you want to lift your style of photography to the next level, look at what Le Rolls has done since going from the FA77 on his K-1 to the FA*85.

They're not cheap second hand, but the upcoming DFA85 is likely to be larger, more expensive, and be more corrected - that is, less of the beautiful portrait rendering you enjoy now.

Why not buy both, and help out Ricoh?

It's the Samyang 85mm f1.4, Al. Manual Focus

Why not buy both, and help out Ricoh?

I'm already wearing glasses and I do not want Manual Focus. Lim 77 \ 1.8 I have, bought a new one.

With my $ 200 income, who would help me? I ask for the sad thoughts ((

Le Rolls- Yes, I watch his work, very cool.

[clackers]

I'm already wearing glasses and I do not want Manual Focus. Lim 77 \ 1.8 I have, bought a new one.

With my $ 200 income, who would help me? I ask for the sad thoughts ((

Le Rolls- Yes, I watch his work, very cool.

Well, I suspect your low budget will *not* suit these new D FA primes, Al, so you can forget about them just as I have to forget about the 645Z, 35mm, 55mm and 120mm Macro package I've just seen in the For Sale section of this site!

We can hope for a lottery win, or perhaps you and I should do a bank heist.

I too love my FA77:

[ogl]

Really?


All Pentax D FA* lenses are one of the best lenses at the modern market.

How many? I know only one lens for K-mount - DFA*70-200/2.8 ED DC AW. Do you know more?

Sigma Art are 11 fast FF lenses and several APS-C.

[Kunzite]

How many? I know only one lens for K-mount - DFA*70-200/2.8 ED DC AW. Do you know more?

Sigma Art are 11 fast FF lenses and several APS-C.

My statement is valid regardless of their number, and can't be invalidated by kettle logic.

[LennyBloke]

If Pentax sells as many copies of the D-FA* 85mm f1.4 as there will be "replies" in this thread when it is launched - they will probably be the most successful Lens producer of all time

[Kunzite]

Photozone tested both these lenses on the 50 MP 5DsR, and they are known for being towards the harsher side when reviewing lenses from all manufacturers. Look at the commentary on Canon's 24-70mm f/2.8 II, considered to be one of, if not the best 24-70 f/2.8 available. They only gave it 3.5 stars for optical quality. It's also telling of the decline in Pentax popularity that none of the DFA lenses have been tested by any of the major photoreview sites. Unfortunately it makes quantifying their performance more difficult.

While their 20mm and 24mm lenses aren't as optically "perfect" as their 35mm, 50mm, and 85mm, they are definitely at the top of the class compared to similar primes. Like you said, it's not easy to make those lenses. Every other 24mm f/1.4 suffers from even worse vignetting. The corners are very tough to make. So I think it's very reasonable to say that Sigma's Art primes are some of the best available, considering optical performance and price. Of course they are heavy, but that's the price you pay with the modern fast primes.

So Pentax has a high standard to surpass if they're gunning to beat Sigma's Art primes. Especially since the 50mm, 85mm, and 35mm (next rumored pentax lenses) are considered to be the best in the Art series.

Ephotozine continues to review Pentax lenses, for example:
Pentax HD PENTAX-D FA* 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW Review
(you want to look at the May 2016 review, there's also an older one done with a pre-production sample)

Pentax is not gunning to beat Sigma's Art primes. Pentax is gunning to release several high-performance FF lenses - we can see they're prioritizing image quality at the expense of size and weight. Their standard might be higher than Sigma's, in certain ways (which might, or might not include shooting test charts).
But instead of being thrilled by the thought that we'll see them really trying, again - we're to have a "nah, they can't possibly beat Sigma" reaction? That doesn't make any sense. Actually, I wonder if it's not sour grapes.

[beholder3]

I have 5dm3 + Canon 24-70 \ 2.8

With my $ 200 income, who would help me?

Whoa. So with all your skill and easily available knowledge about non/existing lenses in Pentaxland you bought a $2000 Pentax Camera after you already have a $2000 Canon plus the best standard zoom (for > $1000) on the market?

And all this with $200 income?

al260, you are the most extreme Pentax fan I have ever read.

And then there are dumb people who challenge the attractiveness of the K-1 and Pentax system. You are the living example that the K-1 is fantastic and beats the pants off all the competition.

[clackers]

If Pentax sells as many copies of the D-FA* 85mm f1.4 as there will be "replies" in this thread when it is launched - they will probably be the most successful Lens producer of all time

I'm with Lenny.

All you guys who say your life isn't worth living without one, you'd better back those statements up with your credit card at release time!

Whoa. So with all your skill and easily available knowledge about non/existing lenses in Pentaxland you bought a $2000 Pentax Camera after you already have a $2000 Canon plus the best standard zoom (for > $1000) on the market?

And all this with $200 income?

al260, you are the most extreme Pentax fan I have ever read.

And then there are dumb people who challenge the attractiveness of the K-1 and Pentax system. You are the living example that the K-1 is fantastic and beats the pants off all the competition.

I unfortunately have a "Diabetes" for this reason, I do not drink alcohol, I follow a diet, I get to save on my Photo of hobbies, for what else do I have to live for?

[ogl]

My statement is valid regardless of their number, and can't be invalidated by kettle logic.
All Pentax D FA* lenses are one of the best lenses at the modern market.

You said LENSES DFA*lenses.


I didn't see any serious review of 70-200/2.8 to make any conclusion. How could you do it?
Ephotozine is pop site. Negligible.

I know only two things
1. this zoom is rather sharp for zoom lens (I "played" with RAW from this lens in Capture One).
2. there is sample variation of this zoom (it's no good for such expensive lens and DFA* name).

I don't know if it's one of the best or not...

[Kunzite]

You said LENSES DFA*lenses.


I didn't see any serious review of 70-200/2.8 to make any conclusion. How could you do it?
Ephotozine is pop site. Negligible.

Yes. All the D FA* lenses. The statement is correct, and the best part is - it will remain correct the next year, or rather forever.

So... a review that's favorable to Pentax is "negligible" (or is it a site that reviews Pentax, or both?). It's not often that I see such an extreme case of confirmation bias.
I'm not going to ignore positive information regarding Pentax.

[angerdan]

PIt's also telling of the decline in Pentax popularity that none of the DFA lenses have been tested by any of the major photoreview sites. Unfortunately it makes quantifying their performance more difficult.

Lenstip and DxO also test Pentax lenses.
LensTip.com - lens review, lenses reviews, lens specification
dxomark.com/Lenses/Pentax
dxomark.com/Reviews/Pentax-smc-DA-Star-300mm-F4-ED-IF-SDM-review