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09-18-2017, 12:52 PM   #796
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To have another division carrying the camera business is not so unusual, AFAIK it happened until recently at Olympus (assuming their current financial records aren't doctored).
I don't know the exact situation they were in, and I won't trust SPARX' claims that Pentax was unable to stay in business. What I know is that the hostile takeover happened right as Pentax was preparing to move forward, to really move forward - with the K10D and a full line of DA lenses.

Conservative? Maybe, but they were one of the firsts to attempt autofocus on their SLRs (an attempt which failed, unfortunately). IIRC they were also pioneers with compacts' AF.
They also attempted a DSLR in 2001, but that didn't even made into the market.
And just a few years before autofocus, they replaced the K lens line with the A. Some say that was an uninspired, costly move.
So I guess the story is quite complex.

09-18-2017, 03:01 PM   #797
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Even in the pre-Hoya days, Pentax was pretty conservative -- slow to jump on auto focus, slow to go digital, and so on. .
Huhh?? They were the first to jump on auto focus.
09-18-2017, 03:16 PM   #798
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Instead, they seem to be attempting to create signature lenses of a quality and performance level that befits the K-1, pixel shift, and the needs of more discerning photographers
That's what I'm hoping, and it's consistent with the known facts, though unfortunately not uniquely so

QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
n an era where only discerning photographers buy standalone cameras
and I think that's right on the nail the case

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
slow to jump on auto focus,
Like with the full frame sensor, it's also true that they were actually over-ambitious and went in too early - but I've always believed that the problem with AF was due in part to the Honeywell tie-up and the patent issues involved.
09-18-2017, 05:45 PM   #799
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Falling behind, yes. About the "inability to stay in business", I'm not so sure - they were unable to resist a hostile takeover, and even that happened largely because one of their major shareholder.
And they didn't got sold.
You are arguing semantics.
Had Pentax peen in a solid financial position a decade ago, their major shareholder wouldn't have been terribly interested in the buy out, and they most likely could have remained a self supporting company.
Over a two decade period, they sat in their hands and let their technology fall behind, let their sales numbers slip sales numbers slip, and did nothing to stop it.
Were it not for the medical division, Pentax wouldn't have made it into the 21st century, Were it not for the medical division doing well enough to generate outside interest, Hoya would have had no interest in acquiring the company and we would all be using Fuji camera with our legacy glass because Pentax would no longer exist.

09-18-2017, 05:45 PM   #800
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Huhh?? They were the first to jump on auto focus.
I remember when my Spotmatic finally died, I went in to Toronto Camera (now defunct) and bought my Program Plus. The guys said "Don't you want to see the Auto-focus?" I said, 'Who on this earth could be too lazy to focus a camera?" Thet was the end of that. If memory serves me well that was 89 or 90.

My theory is that Pentax for the most part had really conservative customers. But my sample size is only 1.

Last edited by normhead; 09-19-2017 at 06:30 AM.
09-18-2017, 06:21 PM - 1 Like   #801
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I was with Wheatfield until he said I'd be using a Fuji.
09-18-2017, 08:22 PM   #802
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QuoteOriginally posted by MadMathMind Quote
All the reviews of the FA limiteds are from like 5+ years ago. To the newcomer, they look old and all the reviews indicate they ARE old. There's a certain level of charm to them, for sure, but I can't imagine the average camera buyer looks at them and says "THAT MAKES ME BUY IN." If anything, I think a "That's all you got? Meh, I'll pass" is more common.

I do love my FA77 but the other two just feel really out of date and not really up to snuff for modern sensors. In particular, the weak contrast wide-open greatly affects the lenses' autofocus capabilities, which is pretty obvious on the 36MP K-1; on things like the K10 and other <10MP cameras, it wasn't so obvious.
PC mag has a recent review of the 43mm on K-1
09-18-2017, 08:31 PM   #803
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
we would all be using Fuji camera with our legacy glass because Pentax would no longer exist.
No, some years ago I moved to Canon because I liked their EF lenses so much better than what Pentax was doing. I had reliability issues with Rebels, so eventually I came back to Pentax; if Pentax had no longer existed, most likely I would have either gone to Sony or stayed with Canon - I can't imagine my ever going to Fuji

---------- Post added 09-18-17 at 11:33 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
My theory is that Pentax for the most part had really conservative customers. But my sample size is only 1.
Maybe only the conservative ones stayed with Pentax after their issues with AF and digital.

09-18-2017, 08:54 PM   #804
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
we would all be using Fuji camera with our legacy glass because Pentax would no longer exist.
QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
I was with Wheatfield until he said I'd be using a Fuji.
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
- I can't imagine my ever going to Fuji
I shoot a K-1 around half the time i use a ILC,but own 2 other Pentax Dslrs with a Pentax logo.

The other half i use FUJI FUJI FUJI, and its amazing to see the Pentxians on the Fuji Forum running Pentax down.I'm not sure if theyve used a K-1 but if they havent then thats too bad.

Either system has its minus and plus points, there aint no perfect system(i have others too).Horses for courses and for Landscape theres only one choice.

Ricoh/Pentax is being kicked while its down....No 4K...only 1 weather sealed FF prime.

However, theres light at the end of the tunnel...just not too sure how bright it is and when it'll be fully illuminated?

What might happen is the 3 primes that have been revealed 35/50/85mm may all come at the same time...dont ya love surprises!
09-18-2017, 11:14 PM   #805
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
You are arguing semantics.
Had Pentax peen in a solid financial position a decade ago, their major shareholder wouldn't have been terribly interested in the buy out, and they most likely could have remained a self supporting company.
Over a two decade period, they sat in their hands and let their technology fall behind, let their sales numbers slip sales numbers slip, and did nothing to stop it.
Were it not for the medical division, Pentax wouldn't have made it into the 21st century, Were it not for the medical division doing well enough to generate outside interest, Hoya would have had no interest in acquiring the company and we would all be using Fuji camera with our legacy glass because Pentax would no longer exist.
No, I'm not arguing semantics - your claim is basically that a Pentax Corporation with the K10D and the DA lens line was unable to stay in business, and was saved by Hoya.
I'm thinking differently: if Pentax Imaging Systems survived under Hoya (and, AFAIK, occasionally turned a profit) and with a profitable medical division, Pentax Corporation was in fact viable. And Hoya was detrimental to their development, it almost killed "our" Pentax. Remember how they slowed down lens development to a grinding halt?
Imagine a Pentax much more willing to invest for the future, to maintain the lens line, to make a second, successful FF DSLR attempt earlier... this is what I have in mind when I'm thinking about "Pentax without Hoya".

There's not much point in crying over spilled milk, but let's not make up Hoya as Pentax' "savior".
09-18-2017, 11:22 PM   #806
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
What might happen is the 3 primes that have been revealed 35/50/85mm may all come at the same time...dont ya love surprises!
I think it's going to be a DFA28mm, there is already a 31 and 35.
09-18-2017, 11:27 PM   #807
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I think it's going to be a DFA28mm
ashaiman has let on its a 35mm, thats why i wrote that,whatever it is,it'll be worth waiting for.
09-19-2017, 12:20 AM   #808
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
I was with Wheatfield until he said I'd be using a Fuji.
There seems to be a lot of people here who don't understand hyperbole.
The point, which seemed to go over many heads, is that we wouldn't be using Pentax.

---------- Post added 09-19-17 at 01:21 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
I shoot a K-1 around half the time i use a ILC,but own 2 other Pentax Dslrs with a Pentax logo.

The other half i use FUJI FUJI FUJI, and its amazing to see the Pentxians on the Fuji Forum running Pentax down.I'm not sure if theyve used a K-1 but if they havent then thats too bad.

Either system has its minus and plus points, there aint no perfect system(i have others too).Horses for courses and for Landscape theres only one choice.

Ricoh/Pentax is being kicked while its down....No 4K...only 1 weather sealed FF prime.

However, theres light at the end of the tunnel...just not too sure how bright it is and when it'll be fully illuminated?

What might happen is the 3 primes that have been revealed 35/50/85mm may all come at the same time...dont ya love surprises!
I love camera systems.

---------- Post added 09-19-17 at 01:30 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
No, I'm not arguing semantics - your claim is basically that a Pentax Corporation with the K10D and the DA lens line was unable to stay in business, and was saved by Hoya.
I'm thinking differently: if Pentax Imaging Systems survived under Hoya (and, AFAIK, occasionally turned a profit) and with a profitable medical division, Pentax Corporation was in fact viable. And Hoya was detrimental to their development, it almost killed "our" Pentax. Remember how they slowed down lens development to a grinding halt?
Imagine a Pentax much more willing to invest for the future, to maintain the lens line, to make a second, successful FF DSLR attempt earlier... this is what I have in mind when I'm thinking about "Pentax without Hoya".

There's not much point in crying over spilled milk, but let's not make up Hoya as Pentax' "savior".
Let's also not pretend that Pentax would have been making cameras in 2008 had it not been for Hoya. Having said that, Hoya never did want the imaging side of the company, their sole aim was to acquire the medical imaging division. What they did after that was a travesty. The K-7 was the first fully Hoya camera, and it had a problem with floating hot pixels. Then came the K5 with all of it's problems.
09-19-2017, 12:38 AM   #809
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I love camera systems. ---------- Post added 09-19-17 at 01:30 AM ----------
They are fun!...Q...M43....NX....all good,none perfect.
09-19-2017, 12:57 AM   #810
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
They are fun!...Q...M43....NX....all good,none perfect.
What we are missing right now with Pentax is the "system" part. A few zooms and some 20 year old lenses does not make a system.
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