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09-19-2017, 01:22 AM   #811
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
A few zooms
Close enough...28-200 and a TC.A film era 24mm and 135-400mm,those 4 do enough.But i carry some DA tiny primes too.

A few special Primes will come soon enough, this calender year?This fiscal year?..Or has somebody been fibbing?

Whenever they are released,they will be special.

09-19-2017, 01:24 AM   #812
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
There seems to be a lot of people here who don't understand hyperbole.
The point, which seemed to go over many heads, is that we wouldn't be using Pentax.

---------- Post added 09-19-17 at 01:21 AM ----------



I love camera systems.

---------- Post added 09-19-17 at 01:30 AM ----------



Let's also not pretend that Pentax would have been making cameras in 2008 had it not been for Hoya. Having said that, Hoya never did want the imaging side of the company, their sole aim was to acquire the medical imaging division. What they did after that was a travesty. The K-7 was the first fully Hoya camera, and it had a problem with floating hot pixels. Then came the K5 with all of it's problems.
The Pentax achievement, and it is an achievement, is managing to stay afloat for about twenty years while being bought, sold or stripped at one time or another. Even though it's now come down to struggles over getting out even one or two new lenses over a couple of years, Pentax are somehow still going. The unknown at the moment is whether the K1 venture is the start of a new DSLR portfolio or the end point of the whole DSLR line over the next couple of years as Ricoh switch to more modern, consumer-friendly items perhaps under the Ricoh brand. A look at the CIPA returns shows the trends in Japan and Asia, half or more of the world camera market. 2018 is likely to be a very revealing year. The K1 is a very good camera indeed, but we don't know whether that's enough of a foundation for a viable FF camera business.
09-19-2017, 02:18 AM - 1 Like   #813
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Let's also not pretend that Pentax would have been making cameras in 2008 had it not been for Hoya. Having said that, Hoya never did want the imaging side of the company, their sole aim was to acquire the medical imaging division. What they did after that was a travesty. The K-7 was the first fully Hoya camera, and it had a problem with floating hot pixels. Then came the K5 with all of it's problems.
Now you're just refusing to support your claim, trying to shift the burden of proof on me. It won't work.

The simple fact that Pentax Imaging Systems survived Hoya means it was viable, especially when supported by a profitable medical division. To say it survived because of Hoya - Hoya, who made a hostile takeover on Pentax Corporation, basically killing the company; Hoya, who didn't wanted the Imaging business and was overly concerned with downsizing and cost cutting...
Hoya managed to transform an imaging division able to launch as many as 8 lenses a year to one that is struggling to execute its roadmap. How is that an improvement?
There is no such thing as a "fully Hoya camera".

---------- Post added 19-09-17 at 12:25 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
TA look at the CIPA returns shows the trends in Japan and Asia, half or more of the world camera market.
Uhh... less than half, if you actually add the numbers. About 41% of all the cameras, and about 49% of the ILCs.
09-19-2017, 02:53 AM   #814
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Now you're just refusing to support your claim, trying to shift the burden of proof on me. It won't work.

[/COLOR]
Uhh... less than half, if you actually add the numbers. About 41% of all the cameras, and about 49% of the ILCs.
Cash value of shipments this year shows that Japan and Asia account for more than half of the world camera market for ILCs, as you know perfectly well of course. You'll also know what the growth of mirrorless camera sales in these territories is the only growth story in the worldwide camera business. In Jan to Jul this year, cash value shipments in Japan+Asia of DSLRs are about 101 and of MILCs are about 73 with the gap closing quite quickly. As i said, 2018 will be a very interesting year. Cash value is the metric that matters because unit numbers alone don't show that the camera-makers are driving their sales upmarket (i.e. fewer units but at a great unit value, shown in the cash value of shipments).

This is the actual world in which Pentax has to find a stable business path.

09-19-2017, 03:34 AM   #815
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My bad, I was using units - for ILCs' value it's indeed 53%.
But even in Japan, MILCs can't surpass DSLRs yet ;-)

Last edited by Kunzite; 09-19-2017 at 03:46 AM.
09-19-2017, 03:47 AM   #816
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Too bad about some of the lenses that went out of production when Hoya came in.

It does seem odd that they can't get a lens out every, say, six months at minimum. A D-FA*85 followed by something along the lines of the FA 20 would have made 2017 a nice year.
09-19-2017, 03:58 AM   #817
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
This is the actual world in which Pentax has to find a stable business path.
It will be a very interesting year indeed !
- With DSLR that are always good enought to satisfy any need in still photography.
- Milc improving faster than DSLR
- Firmware updates allowing fast uprgrading of current body (see Fuji and Sony)

- People wanting lighter imaging solution
- Mixed stills and video - with very good results from basics fonction like crisp 1080p)
- People wanting more high end lenses.

The thing is Pentax excells at nones, but is never extremely bad. Room from improvements.
09-19-2017, 04:13 AM   #818
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
My bad, I was using units - for ILCs' value it's indeed 53%.
But even in Japan, MILCs can't surpass DSLRs yet ;-)
So far as I can see, the story is that there is plenty of room for both kinds, of course, and one hopes there will be for many years to come. I've never believed in the either/or position. A market trend doesn't suddenly make a DSLR like the K1 or the D850 less than an incredibly accomplished camera. The tricky question for smaller companies, not just Pentax at all, is how best to steer a path through these times of change. This may be behind Ricoh's hesitation, if that's what it is. A lens needs a steady sale for quite a few years, not just a few months, so what's the best way to set up the system one is hoping to sell. The same applies to third-party lens-makers and equipment-makers of all kinds.

09-20-2017, 01:12 PM   #819
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FYI


Canon 5Dmark III + Sigma 85/1,4 ART vs Pentax K-1 + Pentax FA77/1,8 Limited










TIF without process (no sharpenning etc) from RAWs and Adobe Lightroom CC2015


I'm waiting for DFA85/1,4
09-20-2017, 01:56 PM   #820
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QuoteOriginally posted by lennyl Quote
FYI


Canon 5Dmark III + Sigma 85/1,4 ART vs Pentax K-1 + Pentax FA77/1,8 Limited










TIF without process (no sharpenning etc) from RAWs and Adobe Lightroom CC2015


I'm waiting for DFA85/1,4
Don't you hate it when the guy doing the comparisons can't set up two tripods and take the same identical image. I'd be going for the 77 just based on size. But that's just me. MY guess is after the Pentax 85 is released I'll still bgoing for the Pentax 77, also based on size, but hey, that's just me.
09-20-2017, 02:10 PM   #821
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
Too bad about some of the lenses that went out of production when Hoya came in.

It does seem odd that they can't get a lens out every, say, six months at minimum. A D-FA*85 followed by something along the lines of the FA 20 would have made 2017 a nice year.
I've been so impressed with my K1 for all of the features packed into its price-point, that I can't wait to see the next iteration.

At this point, I'd gladly pay for a K1ii or a K2 in the $2500-3000 range if it did ALL the things.
09-20-2017, 02:13 PM   #822
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Don't you hate it when the guy doing the comparisons can't set up two tripods and take the same identical image. I'd be going for the 77 just based on size. But that's just me. MY guess is after the Pentax 85 is released I'll still bgoing for the Pentax 77, also based on size, but hey, that's just me.
You can't compare cows with horses. But the pictures of the Canon/Sigma (smaller sensor) are much sharper as Pentax/Limited :-(

Why? because it is old Glass?

Gérard
09-20-2017, 02:24 PM   #823
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gerard_Dirks Quote
You can't compare cows with horses
The horses are the ones that dont give milk,thats how i can compare them....OH, and often theres some BS around!
09-20-2017, 02:34 PM - 1 Like   #824
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
The horses are the ones that dont give milk,thats how i can compare them....OH, and often theres some BS around!
Tell that to Genghis Khan! He and his fellow soldiers drank fermented mare's milk.
09-20-2017, 03:20 PM   #825
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Genghis Khan
QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
drank fermented mare's milk.
Is that what killed him?
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