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09-21-2017, 10:21 PM   #856
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
Couldn't you ask exactly the same question about the K-1?
Is making a great camera enough? It doesn't seem to be enough for dSLR's. Given the D810, price is the single most compelling feature. The Pentax signature elements are really just flourishes that we certainly appreciate, but the world doesn't seem to want the package in large numbers.

So a Pentax MILC, with some Pentax sauce and maybe a new mount and a few lenses would likely command every bit as much of the MILC market as a Pentax dSLR does of the reflex market.

09-21-2017, 11:59 PM   #857
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Working from the experience of the Ricoh GXR (that since I have bougth it I have found is a great camera not at all awkward as it seemed to me before), creating a modular mirrorless system with swappable sensors and swappable camera mounts could create something really new to the market. A single camera where you can mount Q, K, 645 lenses, micro 4/3, leica M... 1, 7" sensor, APs-C, full frame, 33x44...
09-22-2017, 12:03 AM - 2 Likes   #858
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Pentax has always been innovative - sometimes usefully so, sometimes quirkily so - but there's a strange thing about innovation - if it's not copied by the big players, it fades out (power zoom for instance): if it is copied, then you lose your edge.
09-22-2017, 01:01 AM   #859
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And people are looking at Canon's power zoom accessory thingie and think, "hey, that's sooo innovative!"

09-22-2017, 01:14 AM   #860
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
And people are looking at Canon's power zoom accessory thingie and think, "hey, that's sooo innovative!"
I suppose that one should acknowledge that Minolta were dabbling at the same time as Pentax - didn't set the world alight for them either
09-22-2017, 01:41 AM   #861
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Sure, Minolta had its share of innovation. So did Kodak
09-22-2017, 02:51 AM   #862
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QuoteOriginally posted by eurostar Quote
Working from the experience of the Ricoh GXR (that since I have bougth it I have found is a great camera not at all awkward as it seemed to me before), creating a modular mirrorless system with swappable sensors and swappable camera mounts could create something really new to the market. A single camera where you can mount Q, K, 645 lenses, micro 4/3, leica M... 1, 7" sensor, APs-C, full frame, 33x44...
Is the Sony E mount just about there as far as all kinds of adapters to bolt on whatever lens you want to it?
09-22-2017, 04:04 AM - 2 Likes   #863
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Is making a great camera enough? It doesn't seem to be enough for dSLR's. Given the D810, price is the single most compelling feature. The Pentax signature elements are really just flourishes that we certainly appreciate, but the world doesn't seem to want the package in large numbers.

So a Pentax MILC, with some Pentax sauce and maybe a new mount and a few lenses would likely command every bit as much of the MILC market as a Pentax dSLR does of the reflex market.
This makes it sound like the whole idea of Ricoh being in the camera business at all is futile. It's quite a sad conclusion to come to, but fortunately I don't agree with it.

For a start, I don't think price is driving all that many people to choose the K-1. It's not that much cheaper than Canon or Nikon anyway. It's the combination of features and characteristics that appeal to a certain type of photographer. They might not be headline grabbing, but are thoughtfully implemented. Pentax and Ricoh cameras have always been known for that. That could be applied to a hypothetical Ricoh/Pentax MILC.

While I don't think it is particularly likely to happen any time soon, if Ricoh decided to make a MILC camera, I think they would have plenty to bring to the table by just picking the best combination of existing features from the K-mount cameras, GR and GXR. That would be enough for me, but I imagine they would have some new ideas as well.

Anyway, I think the whole forum's got into a collective funk because not much has come out recently. It's happened several times since I started frequenting this place, and what always happens is a camera comes out, later than expected, and it's fantastic. When I see Ricoh taking their time to release something, I assume it is because what they are working on is really hard to get right, and what comes in the end will be better as a result. There's plenty of precedent for that.

09-22-2017, 06:02 AM   #864
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Not sure that's hurting sales.. it seems more people are satisfied with average than not. Plus they offer pricey G Master lenses.. and those seem to sell.. so they must be doing something properly.


(Even though I share the same opinion with respect to Sony MILC build quality and ergonomics)
They are the only mainstream company making FF mirrorless so yes, they are selling pretty well. They have no competition. If you want a FF mirrorless you can chose between Sony & Leica. The lenses are great, but expensive. The cameras are packed with great technology, but the build quality, menus, & ergonomics are pretty poor. Sony is making a lot of progress and improving quickly, so they may get it all fixed before they have actual competition.

---------- Post added 09-22-17 at 08:11 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Is making a great camera enough? It doesn't seem to be enough for dSLR's. Given the D810, price is the single most compelling feature. The Pentax signature elements are really just flourishes that we certainly appreciate, but the world doesn't seem to want the package in large numbers.
If the K-1 had the D810 AF and buffer it would be enough. For professional photographers these are feature worth paying for..... That and the lens selection. Ricoh is close however and if they put forth the effort they can close the gap.
09-22-2017, 06:44 AM   #865
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
But Sony makes bodies with sub-par build quality, terrible menus, and bad ergonomics.
If true, it apparently hasn't concerned the many thousands of customers who have purchased the NEX, a6XXX, and a7x line cameras over the past few years.
09-22-2017, 07:19 AM - 2 Likes   #866
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QuoteOriginally posted by jlstrawman Quote
If true, it apparently hasn't concerned the many thousands of customers who have purchased the NEX, a6XXX, and a7x line cameras over the past few years.
Millions buy McDonalds burgers every day but that doesn't mean they are the best or even good.

Popularity and quality are not always correlated.
09-22-2017, 10:36 AM   #867
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QuoteOriginally posted by jlstrawman Quote
If true, it apparently hasn't concerned the many thousands of customers who have purchased the NEX, a6XXX, and a7x line cameras over the past few years.
Yes, and I own an A7II. Most of the NEX, A6000, A7 buyers don't have a K-1 to compare the build quality to. The people who have shot with professional grade equipment from Nikon, Canon, or Pentax immediately notice the difference. The weather sealing on the A7II is questionable at best. My rear LCD fogs under high humidity. The shutter sounds like an an old Kodak 110 camera that sold for $20.00. There are are a lot of great things about my A7II that I like, but the build quality is definitely not one of them.
09-22-2017, 10:58 AM   #868
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Millions buy McDonalds burgers every day but that doesn't mean they are the best or even good.

Popularity and quality are not always correlated.


But quality is largely a consumer concern. The company generally just wants to sell. Which I think why the plasticky shelled, mushy buttoned boxes that get churned out constantly sell so well.. if people don't care, why should the company?
09-22-2017, 11:00 AM   #869
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The shutter sounds like an an old Kodak 110 camera that sold for $20.00.
I actually love the the A7Rii shutter sound
09-22-2017, 12:06 PM   #870
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
If the K-1 had the D810 AF and buffer it would be enough. For professional photographers these are feature worth paying for..... That and the lens selection. Ricoh is close however and if they put forth the effort they can close the gap.
I understand the Pentax brand identifiers very well. Unfortunately they aren't making people run out and buy Pentax cameras. Reported 84,000 planned annual production of K-1 won't change much if those numbers and price decision are applied to better fitted K-1n.

I also wonder how a small company can catch Sony, design an automated manufacturing process from scratch and improve on Sony weakness by adding Pentax brand identifiers - and sell enough of them by word of mouth - to make a profit while bootstrapping.

At the end of the day, Ricoh has to commit and invest some capital and plan for marketing expenses (meaning sell at a higher price) to change anything from the status quo.

I hope the recent tickler posts about the lenses are correct, but something has to happen before Black Friday.
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