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09-22-2017, 12:27 PM   #871
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But should they attempt to make people "run out and buy Pentax cameras"? AFAIK the last company attempting that - they even had a "Ditch your DSLR" campaign - was Samsung

09-22-2017, 12:44 PM   #872
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
But quality is largely a consumer concern. The company generally just wants to sell. Which I think why the plasticky shelled, mushy buttoned boxes that get churned out constantly sell so well.. if people don't care, why should the company?
Exactly!

Average companies selling to average consumers must make average products.

I don't think the management of the local steakhouse is thinking "gee we need to jump on the cheap hamburger trend ASAP."

Banging heads with entrenched competitors is just a recipe for brain damage.
09-22-2017, 12:51 PM   #873
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QuoteOriginally posted by nzondlo Quote
I actually love the the A7Rii shutter sound
The RII might have a better shutter. The A7II sounds cheap.

---------- Post added 09-22-17 at 02:55 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
But should they attempt to make people "run out and buy Pentax cameras"? AFAIK the last company attempting that - they even had a "Ditch your DSLR" campaign - was Samsung
I think Fuji wrote the book on how to do this. Just a few short years ago they didn't even have a ILC system. Even though the X-Pro 1 was less than refined Fuji managed to create a lot of excitement and steadily gained market share. The first cameras have very frustrating firmware and menus, but the excitement, marketing, and constant communication with their users carried the system to success while Fuji improved and found their identity.
09-22-2017, 01:48 PM   #874
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Fuji did very well in generating hype; but that's not an option for Pentax.

09-22-2017, 02:05 PM - 1 Like   #875
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Fuji did very well in generating hype; but that's not an option for Pentax.
Is there a reason why that is not an option? Fuji didn't spend a lot of money. They used social media and bloggers. They created excitement through communication. If you want to argue that Ricoh has no idea how to communicate, then you might have valid point. But hype is nothing more than marketing and if Ricoh can't market then it doesn't matter what they try to sell.
09-22-2017, 02:33 PM   #876
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I would be glad to be proven wrong; but I just don't see how it could work, to an extent remotely close to Fuji's.
The reason is the prevalent negativism regarding Pentax and Ricoh as their owner. Such a thing would IMO quench any attempt at building hype.
OTOH with Fuji, people generally praised them and were quite willing to ignore various drawbacks. It became a hipster movement - while Pentax is "mainstream", yet another reason they can't do the same.

By the way, do you remember what happened when Pentax officials tried to communicate?
09-22-2017, 08:19 PM   #877
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I would be glad to be proven wrong; but I just don't see how it could work, to an extent remotely close to Fuji's.
The reason is the prevalent negativism regarding Pentax and Ricoh as their owner. Such a thing would IMO quench any attempt at building hype.
OTOH with Fuji, people generally praised them and were quite willing to ignore various drawbacks. It became a hipster movement - while Pentax is "mainstream", yet another reason they can't do the same.

By the way, do you remember what happened when Pentax officials tried to communicate?
Part of the negativism is due to their failure to communicate. Part of it is due to failures in the past. Ricoh needs to put forth a message to photographers. Who is Ricoh, where are they going, and why should people buy into their vision? Ricoh doesn't seem to know themselves. One of the biggest problems with the brand is simply one of faith. A crisis of confidence usually doesn't fix itself.

I'm really hoping that this long dead period is simply due to Ricoh having a significant number of projects under development and we will see a large number of products announced at the end of this year. The 645 system needs a lot of work. K-mount (both ASP-C & FF) need to have product holes filled. The D-FA* glass is very encouraging.
09-23-2017, 12:03 AM   #878
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Ricoh were always solid rather than cool, but Pentax was once cool (yeah, it;s an age thing) and I think that enough of the Pentax DNA has survived the various transplants to get that cool back. 'Just hold a Pentax' is still there in the build quality and ergonomics - Asahi started as lens makers and Pentax has made many top quality lenses over the years - and they are pursuing that actively again now. Pentax started floundering when AF started taking off - something about style or philosophy just didn't get - and they turned their focus too much (imho) to consumer and compact cameras, letting the 645 and 67 carry their pro flag - their flagship SLRs were an increasing number of notches below the flagships of Canon and Nikon. Olympus and Minolta were in the same position - Olympus took a big side step and Minolta got absorbed into Sony. So one question is, why is the Pentax name still on cameras while Minolta isn't, despite the amount of money that Minolta threw at publicity and advertising (as well as making very good cameras)? The answer to me is that the marque still means something that can't be bought - and that might have its roots 50 years or more ago, but it still carries a lot of goodwill and good DNA, and I think that Ricoh know that and are working to clear the undergrowth and get back the cachet the brand once enjoyed.

09-23-2017, 12:19 AM   #879
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
By the way, do you remember what happened when Pentax officials tried to communicate
Yes, that was a while ago...before Hoya.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
with Fuji, people generally praised them
And still do, just the same as Pentax gets praised.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
were quite willing to ignore various drawbacks.
Just like every other camera.



QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
It became a hipster movement
I see lots of hipsters but have never seen one with a Fuji.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
is "mainstream
Was the mainstream a long time ago....but fills a niche for a lot of people that started with the brand.
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
But should they attempt to make people "run out and buy Pentax cameras"? AFAIK the last company attempting that - they even had a "Ditch your DSLR" campaign - was Samsung
Yes, but some expected a phone as well, thats Y they didnt sell.

---------- Post added 09-23-17 at 06:36 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I think Fuji wrote the book on how to do this
Cant find that one in the library?
09-23-2017, 01:02 AM   #880
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Yes, that was a while ago...before Hoya.
John Carlson? Ned Bunnell?
Pentaxforums itself was founded right as Hoya was trying to take over.
And even Kenspo - a Pentax Ambassador - is getting some flak, something about years and primes... punishment for being Ambassador for an undesirable brand, perhaps?

QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
And still do, just the same as Pentax gets praised.
Except with Fuji, it's mostly praise. With Pentax, it's a rarity.

QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Just like every other camera.
Just read this forum... keep in mind, there are worse places.

QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
I see lots of hipsters but have never seen one with a Fuji.
They're "camera hipsters"
Fuji cameras are retro-chic and they don't fit into an established mainstream (i.e. they're not DSLRs).

QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Was the mainstream a long time ago....but fills a niche for a lot of people that started with the brand.
I'd say their DSLRs are clearly mainstream. They just have a small market share, but that's another story.
09-23-2017, 01:03 AM   #881
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
(...) why is the Pentax name still on cameras while Minolta isn't (...)
Oh, the Minolta name is still on cameras, for worse I would say.

09-23-2017, 01:23 AM   #882
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Part of the negativism is due to their failure to communicate. Part of it is due to failures in the past. Ricoh needs to put forth a message to photographers. Who is Ricoh, where are they going, and why should people buy into their vision? Ricoh doesn't seem to know themselves. One of the biggest problems with the brand is simply one of faith. A crisis of confidence usually doesn't fix itself.

I'm really hoping that this long dead period is simply due to Ricoh having a significant number of projects under development and we will see a large number of products announced at the end of this year. The 645 system needs a lot of work. K-mount (both ASP-C & FF) need to have product holes filled. The D-FA* glass is very encouraging.
I'm not saying it's completely without reason, I'm saying it's out of control, unreasonable and unfair. Any positive action from Pentax is met with resistance - even the K-1 had its "Pentax should put the K-1 on hold!" thread; and the K-1 is especially positive
Of course, Ricoh is not communicating well outside Japan, I'll give you that. I could also dig threads with our reaction to interviews. Do we actually desire communication?

Not at the end of this year, unless you mean fiscal year.
09-23-2017, 01:27 AM   #883
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
They're "camera hipsters"
And ive heard the worst of all Hipsterishness.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Just read this forum.
I read others,as you do....they are all similar,just depends on what an idividual likes.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Except with Fuji, it's mostly praise. With Pentax, it's a rarity.
I cant agree with that one, theres plenty among their user base that are very critical.I suppose if they won a lottery,the prize wouldnt be enough.

So,i'm expecting no HIPsters to buy the 85f1.4...so let this discussion get back to what it should be(i know its fun to get sidetracked!)
09-23-2017, 02:34 AM   #884
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Oh, the Minolta name is still on cameras, for worse I would say.
what? Where? How? - Are those things actually on sale? Where?
09-23-2017, 02:44 AM   #885
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I would be glad to be proven wrong; but I just don't see how it could work, to an extent remotely close to Fuji's.
The reason is the prevalent negativism regarding Pentax and Ricoh as their owner. Such a thing would IMO quench any attempt at building hype.
OTOH with Fuji, people generally praised them and were quite willing to ignore various drawbacks. It became a hipster movement - while Pentax is "mainstream", yet another reason they can't do the same.

By the way, do you remember what happened when Pentax officials tried to communicate?
I really do think that one of the major failings Pentax has is that they haven't even really tried to advertise. They have this thing called the Pentax Photo Gallery. I guess it is still there, but they should either ditch it or use it actually demonstrate their gear. They have a few ambassadors, but as far as I can tell, when those photographers say too much, they get in trouble. I wasn't a big fan of Fuji's Crap or Crop video, but it certainly got a lot of views. Paying some excellent photographers to talk honestly about their gear and giving them gear to use would be helpful.

The hipster versus mainstream thing is a red herring. In the end, people have to know about your gear and why it is worth their while to get it or you will have declining sales.
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