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09-25-2017, 09:27 AM   #946
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
(...) I expect you think Pentax will also bring out an 18mm F1.4 and a 25mm F1.4 The two other primes in the Tokina Vista Prime line up.
Actually, I do not. The fact that Tokina issued the first three Vista lenses shortly after the initial announcement and seem to struggle to launch a fourth one makes me think (another speculation) that the funding of the development of the last two lenses might not follow the same path as the funding of the development of the first three ones. To be more explicit, that Tokina have no third party with whom to share the development costs of the two remaining lenses and must fund 100 per cent. of them from their own balance sheet.

09-25-2017, 09:33 AM   #947
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You realise you are reasoning towards an inevitable conclusion? There is no way these are not the new Pentax primes.
09-25-2017, 09:44 AM   #948
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Actually, I do not. The fact that Tokina issued the first three Vista lenses shortly after the initial announcement and seem to struggle to launch a fourth one makes me think (another speculation) that the funding of the development of the last two lenses might not follow the same path as the funding of the development of the first three ones. To be more explicit, that Tokina have no third party with whom to share the development costs of the two remaining lenses and must fund 100 per cent. of them from their own balance sheet.
Or simply, the optical design is unfinished for the two others.
09-25-2017, 10:22 AM   #949
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I really hope they don't make those lenses, at least not a FF-compatible 25mm f1.4. Let the FF folks carry around some Sigma-sized chunk of glass, that's probably a bit more appropriate, but let the mid-20's prime be an f2.4 or f2.8 and not large by huge. Something that won't dwarf a KP or K-01.

09-25-2017, 10:26 AM   #950
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QuoteOriginally posted by Belnan Quote
When Tokina anounced the cin Lenses I thought the same thing as Mistral75. As far as the differences in size well here is a comparison to think about.

Pentax da* 50-135 to the tokina cin 50-135

Focal Length: Same 50-135
Format: Same APS-C
Aperature Range: Same F/2.8 to F/22
Minimum Focus: Same 1meter
Magnification: Same 0.17x
Elements/Groups: Same 18/14
Diaphram Blades: Same 9
Filter Thread: Pentax 67mm << Tokina 112mm
Length: Pentax 136mm < Tokina 159mm
Wieght: Pentax 1.51 lbs(685 g) << tokina 3.4 lbs(1530 g)

Are these two companies done with each other? I dont know.

Where is this info from? B and H's page (Tokina 50-135mm f/2.8 AT-X 535 PRO DX Autofocus Lens ATXAF535DXN) indicates filter size of the Tokina to be 67 mm, Weight to be 845 grams and length 135 mm.
09-25-2017, 10:52 AM   #951
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Where is this info from? B and H's page (Tokina 50-135mm f/2.8 AT-X 535 PRO DX Autofocus Lens ATXAF535DXN) indicates filter size of the Tokina to be 67 mm, Weight to be 845 grams and length 135 mm.
I was comparing the pentax da*50-135 to the tokina Cinema 50-135, it could of also been a tokina to tokina comparison. My point was that even though they are the same optical design the size and weight are vastly different.

Pentax smc PENTAX-DA* 50-135mm f/2.8 ED (IF) SDM Lens 21660 B&H

Tokina Cinema 50-135mm T3.0 with PL Mount TC-535P B&H Photo
09-25-2017, 11:19 AM   #952
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QuoteOriginally posted by Belnan Quote
I was comparing the pentax da*50-135 to the tokina Cinema 50-135, it could of also been a tokina to tokina comparison. My point was that even though they are the same optical design the size and weight are vastly different.

Pentax smc PENTAX-DA* 50-135mm f/2.8 ED (IF) SDM Lens 21660 B&H

Tokina Cinema 50-135mm T3.0 with PL Mount TC-535P B&H Photo
Is the cine 50-135 based on the optical design of the DA *50-135? My guess would have been that it wasn't, but I don't really know.
09-25-2017, 11:47 AM   #953
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Is the cine 50-135 based on the optical design of the DA *50-135? My guess would have been that it wasn't, but I don't really know.
Yes, it is. It's the same with the other Cine ATX lenses, based on the photo ATX lenses:

- 11-16mm T/3 <==> 11-16mm f/2.8 (Super35 / APS-C)
- 16-28mm T/3 <==> 16-28mm f/2.8 (24x36)
- 100mm T/2.9 Macro <==> 100mm f/2.8 Macro (24x36)

09-25-2017, 04:36 PM - 1 Like   #954
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If nothing else, the Tokina speculation is interesting.
09-25-2017, 05:54 PM   #955
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Ricoh needs to be paying attention to video blogs. Those guys need content to keep their channel relevant and Ricoh needs exposure. The guy on Cameraville has been doing a lot of Pentax reviews. He's not very polished, but he is getting better. Those things take a lot of time and you have to be dedicated to it. IF you can get over the 1 million subscribers mark there is some money in it.

When you realize how little it costs to run a YouTube channel relative to the exposure you gain, you would think Ricoh would sponsor their own channel. Of course you have to have content and be able to communicate and Ricoh's not very good at either of those. The FujiGuys channel is pretty decent for a manufacturers channel.
Marketing online requires a huge number of exposures for a LONG time over multiple channels. Developing online content is a lot of work requiring a serious, dedicated commitment.

My son owns a very successful Lacrosse athletic equipment store (quite specialized) using social media as his lone marketing channel. He's taken 30,000 images and hundreds of minutes of video YTD (including GoPro and drone) posting on FB, Twitter, Instagram, SnapChat, YouTube, Twitter Stream, ICloud subscription, his commercial website and probably others I don't know. He's done professional vids (product reviews) for Brands on his YT Channel. He supports Lacrosse in the area financially ('Grow the Game' is his branded Corporate sponsorship tag) everywhere and has made it his business to know the coaches, players and PARENTS in the area personally.

I swear he does more marketing for a 5000 sq. ft. store than RIAC does for an entire continent.
09-25-2017, 06:42 PM   #956
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Marketing online requires a huge number of exposures for a LONG time over multiple channels. Developing online content is a lot of work requiring a serious, dedicated commitment.
Yes, and there are kids on YouTube who have over 1 million subscribers? How many does Ricoh Imaging have? They need a YouTube Channel like the Fuji Guys. The need to be creating content.

You are right in that it takes a long time which is why they need to get started sooner rather than latter. Jared Polin has almost 700K subscribers. While his marketing budget and staff size is probably comparable to Ricoh Imaging's, I would think they could come close to that with a little effort. Tony Northrup has over 800K subscribers, but to be fair, he obviously has a lot more resources and marketing skill to work with.
09-25-2017, 07:21 PM   #957
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Jared Polin has almost 700K
...flippers following him...a direct reason not to YT when you encounter that bombastic NO fro.
09-26-2017, 12:40 AM   #958
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
there are kids on YouTube who have over 1 million subscribers
Only 1 million? Casey Neistat (b. 1981) has 7.8M, and he's almost single-handedly driven DJI's drone sales in the USA, not to mention electric skateboard sales and all manner of other gadgets. Plus he recently sold himself to CNN, who desperately want-in on the YouTube generation.
09-26-2017, 01:10 AM   #959
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Marketing online requires a huge number of exposures for a LONG time over multiple channels. Developing online content is a lot of work requiring a serious, dedicated commitment.

My son owns a very successful Lacrosse athletic equipment store (quite specialized) using social media as his lone marketing channel. He's taken 30,000 images and hundreds of minutes of video YTD (including GoPro and drone) posting on FB, Twitter, Instagram, SnapChat, YouTube, Twitter Stream, ICloud subscription, his commercial website and probably others I don't know. He's done professional vids (product reviews) for Brands on his YT Channel. He supports Lacrosse in the area financially ('Grow the Game' is his branded Corporate sponsorship tag) everywhere and has made it his business to know the coaches, players and PARENTS in the area personally.

I swear he does more marketing for a 5000 sq. ft. store than RIAC does for an entire continent.
Your son sounds very astute and I hope his business is a great success.

None of this is rocket science though it is hard work. Ricoh have done the same many times for Ricoh itself, I am sure, and could do the same tomorrow. At one time ads for Ricoh ("Imagine. Change.") as an office docs and ideas processing brand were all over the place here.

For whatever reason, Ricoh have decided that the Pentax brand and way of doing photography is not worth promoting outside Japan on a more than minimal basis. They've kept to this for years and I don't expect them to change. They seem to have found quite a few bob to promote the Ricoh Theta, however. I'd guess this tells us about their future priorities.

The mystery TBH is why Ricoh bought Pentax and then did nothing much with it beyond biz as usual and let the North America arm of it go a bit fallow.
09-26-2017, 01:23 AM   #960
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote

The mystery TBH is why Ricoh bought Pentax and then did nothing much with it beyond biz as usual
?

During the industry downturn, they entered the full frame market for the first time since the film age, along with a holy trinity of f2.8 zooms.
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