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12-09-2017, 04:41 AM   #1411
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QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
Quote the complete post and redo your maths:
We have 4 new D-FA lenses plus the D-FA 70-200. 2 Tamron designs, 2 are from Pentax. 50% is still not a majoritay, admitted, but pretty sad for a camera and lens manufacturer and as close as possible to the word majority. I think my exaggeration outweighs your maths.

---------- Post added 09-12-17 at 08:29 AM ----------



I worked with the very first autofocus 2.8/80-200 which weight 1280g and already felt heavy. OK lenses have to get better, need different AF motors, ...they get bigger and heavier. My Pentax 2.8/70-200 is 1755g without the tripod food. All the other lenses mentioned above weigh 250g less, make your Math and don't tell me that 250g do not matter. Thank you Pentax for adding a lot of weight at no extra charge. A weight difference of 250g is easily felt when you actually use a lens for more than 10 minutes - the thing with the lever arm and the weight is Physics and not Maths for the smart bunch here.
The Canon 70-200 IS II is 1500 grams, the Nikon 70-200 VR II is 1540 grams, and the Pentax DFA 70-200 is 1755 grams (those are weights on B and H's website and I think they include the tripod feet). The difference in weight is between 200 and 250 grams. If that really is a big deal with a lens this size, then certainly it might make sense to move to a different brand where these lenses are slightly smaller. I don't lift weights, but I haven't found the DFA 70-200 to be particularly unwieldy.

In the end, it is what it is. Pentax is clearly not going to redesign this lens at this point, nor are they trying to skimp on size with the coming DFA *primes. They will be big and high quality. That's fine with me, but if size is key, then going with a different brand may be in order.

12-09-2017, 06:23 AM   #1412
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QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
Quote the complete post and redo your maths:
We have 4 new D-FA lenses plus the D-FA 70-200. 2 Tamron designs, 2 are from Pentax. 50% is still not a majoritay, admitted, but pretty sad for a camera and lens manufacturer and as close as possible to the word majority. I think my exaggeration outweighs your maths.
You do realize that quoting the statistical probabilities of a lens, based on the lenses released makes not a single bit of difference to whether or not the next lens is outsourced. Just like flipping a coin.

But look at the circumstances around the two rebadged Tamrons.

Somehow the engineers did an end run around marketing who it was always said hold the final decision about if there was going to be an FF. BY all accounts the engineers pushed really hard for it, that left the company in a position where they didn't have even the basic lenses to release with the camera they were making. In that circumstance not trying to do it all in house made sense.

There is absolutely no evidence at all that the company is in a hurry to do the rest of it. The Sigma 18-300 was released for Pentax, there is no "have to have" lens out there that needs to be rushed to market. Pentax can let their own guys do the work. If one looks back, the Pentax 18-270 was also a Tamron design. My FA 28 200 is a Tamron design. Look at the number of licensed designs over the years, to have 2 in a one year span is the sign of extraordinary circumstances. It needs to go on for a while to be a trend and there is no evidence at all that that is going to happen, anymore than it did in the past. Indeed, if Pentax were going to license Tamron products, where are they? What would they be waiting for? With the downturn in DSLR sales it's almost certain manufacturers have extra production capacity. In a sense, with the 15-30 and 24-70 Pentax is leasing Tamron facilities to meet the demand of lenses for the K-1. But it was an extraordinary circumstance that made that necessary.

I expect Pentax to go back to licensing a Tamron design every couple of years for lenses they have no desire to design themselves, because most Tamron license designs have not been premium products. Already designed and in production "good enough for super zoom guys" is different from "top of the line pro". The 50 and 85 are going to be top of the line pro lenses.

The idea of either being a Tamron design ignores history, and current circumstances.

With the core of lenses needed by working pros covered, Pentax is back into "we'll get to it when we get to it " mode. The pressure is off.
12-09-2017, 07:47 AM   #1413
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Bingo. Context is everything.

I believe Ricoh Imaging wanted to launch these lenses earlier, but couldn't. Was it Mistral who said the delay was due to the development of the ring-type SDM?
The D FA* 70-200 also had to be delayed. I guess it's unavoidable, when you get back to making high-end lenses after a long pause.
12-09-2017, 11:03 AM - 1 Like   #1414
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TBH, I'd like to see a thread "DFA 600 f4 is coming" and K3 replacement is coming. Although I like the ruggedness of Pentax , my last experiences with should with K1 and DFA150450 let me think I could get better with another brand. People hanging for years on a 50mm and 85mm primes is pathetic, as other people shooting Canikon have had that choice for a long time.

12-09-2017, 11:26 AM   #1415
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Frankly, the reason I havenít changed is the disutility of turning over the lenses, not the cameras. It very well could be Ricoh is waiting for durable global economic recovery and firming of the dSLR market or proof the younger generation and technology have abandoned the mirrorbox before they fully commit.

Or Pentax is a hobby.

Either way Iíll be dead before it is resolved and in the meantime Iíll use and enjoy what I have without second guesses and stats-envy.
12-09-2017, 11:33 AM   #1416
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Hanging for years?

Fact: this is not about waiting for a 50mm, as Pentax already had the FA. This is about a high-end * quality 50mm f/1.4 FF prime.

Fact: the K-1 was announced in February 2016. It's not "years" yet - and in the spring we'll have the lens.

Fact: Canon still doesn't have a high-end 50mm f/1.4 prime! Yep, they're still with the film-era EF 50mm f/1.4 (and with the 50mm f/1.2, but that's not it either).
And they had FF since 2002. What were you saying about pathetic?

Next spring, Pentax will have the best 50mm from all 3 remaining DSLR manufacturers.
Well, at least Canon and Nikon will put up some fight on the 85mm.
12-09-2017, 11:54 AM   #1417
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
TBH, I'd like to see a thread "DFA 600 f4 is coming"
Given Ricoh's recent trend with premium lenses, that 600/4 would be about 5 kg.
12-09-2017, 12:12 PM   #1418
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Fact: this is not about waiting for a 50mm, as Pentax already had the FA.
That's a very good point, Pentax has the FA lenses developed for film, while Canikon have had the DFA for at least a decade.

12-09-2017, 12:15 PM   #1419
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As I already said, Canon still has their film-era EF 50mm f/1.4.
12-09-2017, 12:22 PM   #1420
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Next spring, Pentax will have the best 50mm from all 3 remaining DSLR manufacturers.
I don't think anybody asked for a 50mm. When it was rumored, it was sort of a surprise to everyone, a lot of people were waiting for the wide angle prime because they don't want to buy and carry the DFA15-30. Yet, the DFA50 comes first.
Not having some key lenses is a turn-off to get the Pentax system, or a reason to go for another brand. Things like AF performance is a softer concern because it is rather hard to put a number on AF performance and even if the keeper rate is not as good that does prevent shooting. However, typically if shooting wedding on FF, you either use a 70-200 or a fast 85, I don't see 50mm being the most used FL for weddings and I don't see it for landscape either. So I don't know how Ricoh decides what products to make, but at least it doesn't seem to be decide from marketing data outside of Japan.
12-09-2017, 12:35 PM   #1421
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I don't think anybody asked for a 50mm. When it was rumored, it was sort of a surprise to everyone, a lot of people were waiting for the wide angle prime because they don't want to buy and carry the DFA15-30. Yet, the DFA50 comes first.
Not having some key lenses is a turn-off to get the Pentax system, or a reason to go for another brand. Things like AF performance is a softer concern because it is rather hard to put a number on AF performance and even if the keeper rate is not as good that does prevent shooting. However, typically if shooting wedding on FF, you either use a 70-200 or a fast 85, I don't see 50mm being the most used FL for weddings and I don't see it for landscape either. So I don't know how Ricoh decides what products to make, but at least it doesn't seem to be decide from marketing data outside of Japan.
I tend to agree with you. I was expecting to see from Ricoh the 85mm and either a 35mm f1.4, either a 20 or a 24mm f1.8 or f2.8. 50mm is a popular focal lenght but not that important because at weedings 24-70mm or 35mm are the most used lenses and an 85mm or 70-200mm f2.8 for close up shots. Maybe a wide lens will be released previous to this 50mm lens or soon after.
12-09-2017, 01:08 PM   #1422
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Oh, so now that we know Canon doesn't have a modern 50mm either, it's unimportant? I thought it was pathetic when a manufacturer doesn't offer such a thing!

The exact order in which Ricoh Imaging is launching those primes will soon become irrelevant.
12-09-2017, 02:14 PM   #1423
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Fact: the K-1 was announced in February 2016. It's not "years" yet - and in the spring we'll have the lens.

So it'll be two year"s" for a 50 1.4? No teleconverter for the new zooms; no extension tubes; no updates to the flashes. And then what -- another 1/2 year to year for the 85? How long after that till the 20 or 24 arrive? I understand these lenses are needed but they aren't what I'd like to see. Realistically, how long before a high quality light weight F4 line of zooms arrive? A 200 macro or tilt/shift? I made the move to Pentax because the K-1 is a wonderful camera for landscape photographers and because Pentax had released a number of full-frame lenses in a short period of time that gave me the impression that Pentax was going to fully support the system and in a timely fashion. I guess when your in your fifties "timely" becomes relative. The K-1 is everything I hoped it would be -- the system build out, well not so much. Hiking with the 70-210, as sharp and wonderful as that lens is, is not fun. Finances being what they are, and having already invested in the system, I'll be around to see what happens, but the slow pace of progress with little outwardly visible support from the parent company has me a little irked and a little worried about the future of the system.
12-09-2017, 02:32 PM   #1424
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
TBH, I'd like to see a thread "DFA 600 f4 is coming" and K3 replacement is coming. Although I like the ruggedness of Pentax , my last experiences with should with K1 and DFA150450 let me think I could get better with another brand. People hanging for years on a 50mm and 85mm primes is pathetic, as other people shooting Canikon have had that choice for a long time.
I don't find it pathetic in waiting. However, I do know one can wait for years and years on a product roadmap to be fulfilled and a company to maybe offer the 'right' camera or lenses. Or they just get on with life and use a system that already has it together for their needs.
12-09-2017, 02:58 PM   #1425
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QuoteOriginally posted by travelswsage Quote
So it'll be two year"s" for a 50 1.4? No teleconverter for the new zooms; no extension tubes; no updates to the flashes. And then what -- another 1/2 year to year for the 85? How long after that till the 20 or 24 arrive? I understand these lenses are needed but they aren't what I'd like to see. Realistically, how long before a high quality light weight F4 line of zooms arrive? A 200 macro or tilt/shift? I made the move to Pentax because the K-1 is a wonderful camera for landscape photographers and because Pentax had released a number of full-frame lenses in a short period of time that gave me the impression that Pentax was going to fully support the system and in a timely fashion. I guess when your in your fifties "timely" becomes relative. The K-1 is everything I hoped it would be -- the system build out, well not so much. Hiking with the 70-210, as sharp and wonderful as that lens is, is not fun. Finances being what they are, and having already invested in the system, I'll be around to see what happens, but the slow pace of progress with little outwardly visible support from the parent company has me a little irked and a little worried about the future of the system.
It will be at most two years, that is, if you bought the K-1 immediately after launch. Did you?
The flashes were updated in 2013.
There will always be another "missing" lens; as gaps are filled, one can always go to more niche products (like tilt/shift). Some people will keep finding gaps; I'd rather be happy when gaps I care about are filled.

Realistically, if Pentax is not good enough for your needs, you should jump ship to a system that is - rather than suffering horribly for being a Pentaxian
But, let's not make up Canon lenses. Let's keep things fair and square.
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