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06-10-2017, 01:49 PM   #436
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QuoteOriginally posted by cyberjunkie Quote
I have a personal theory:
unless a high end version of the K-1 is introduced without too much delay, and with a state-of-the-art AF system (more AF points, bulletproof tracking, etc), i don't foresee a great success for primes that will have as main selling point a fast in-lens AF motor. The edge in IQ won't be so great to convince a good number of Pentax users to buy the new primes.
Fast focusing AF primes should go with an equally fast (and super reliable) AF system.
I love my K-1, don't get my wrong, but i don't shoot sports, flying birds, and the like...
I'm all for theories, Paolo, but primes of less than 200mm are almost irrelevant to wildlife and sports shooters.

06-10-2017, 01:57 PM   #437
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The only reason to talk about it is to shed doubt on Pentax' survival.
The success or failure of the Pentax brand won't be due to the comments on this obscure camera forum. Globally that post won't be read by more than 50 people.
06-10-2017, 02:04 PM   #438
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I though this was supposed to be one of, if not the largest Pentaxian community in the world.

And of course, it's no less FUD if it doesn't kill Pentax in a single stroke.
06-10-2017, 02:06 PM   #439
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
That's spreading FUD while pretending you're doing no harm. It's no different than "discussing the feasibility (or lack thereof) of Pentax disappearing altogether by the end of the year".

Tamron buying (parts of) Ricoh Imaging is complete madness and it doesn't make any ounce of sense - just like giving up on the K-1, or APS-H cameras. The only reason to talk about it is to shed doubt on Pentax' survival.
Harm? Define harm.

You can spin any discussion to have negative connotations. We were discussing the survival of Pentax under a theoretical view that the market contracts further... and to the point that mergers need to occur. And also another one that simply gets us more lenses quicker. It had nothing to do with harming anyone or anything. It is incredible you can find negative connotations out of such benign comments.

06-10-2017, 02:13 PM   #440
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Even making one person needlessly worry about its choice qualifies as "harm".

I am spinning this thread about the D FA 85mm f/1.4 to have negative connotations?
You are discussing (questioning, actually) the survival of Pentax, indeed... around here, we call it PentaxIsDoomedTM. It's funny how you don't realize what you just admitted.

Whatever justification you're trying to build, it's invalid. Even if you believe in it.

FUD is never benign. Stop it. We had enough FUD from other systems' users... we really don't need to do that ourselves.
06-10-2017, 02:30 PM   #441
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Free dom to discuss things is hanging........


But at least Romania is allowning us to Yodel It

(I think a great contribution of Kunzites home countries to the Eurovision Songcontest)
06-10-2017, 02:41 PM   #442
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Even making one person needlessly worry about its choice qualifies as "harm".

I am spinning this thread about the D FA 85mm f/1.4 to have negative connotations?
You are discussing (questioning, actually) the survival of Pentax, indeed... around here, we call it PentaxIsDoomedTM. It's funny how you don't realize what you just admitted.

Whatever justification you're trying to build, it's invalid. Even if you believe in it.

FUD is never benign. Stop it. We had enough FUD from other systems' users... we really don't need to do that ourselves.
Oh dear.

06-10-2017, 02:51 PM - 1 Like   #443
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Freedom of speech doesn't mean the freedom to spread FUD as much as you want, anywhere you want. Freedom of speech is never absolute (and of course, people don't have to agree with you - it works for us as well)
For example, if a moderator would find this exchange off-topic and would delete it, this would not actually infringe any right of yours/ours. Specifically, it would not be censorship.

By the way, continue discussing my home country and you might see precisely that.

Last edited by Kunzite; 06-10-2017 at 02:57 PM.
06-10-2017, 03:51 PM   #444
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Freedom of speech doesn't mean the freedom to spread FUD as much as you want, anywhere you want. Freedom of speech is never absolute (and of course, people don't have to agree with you - it works for us as well)
For example, if a moderator would find this exchange off-topic and would delete it, this would not actually infringe any right of yours/ours. Specifically, it would not be censorship.

By the way, continue discussing my home country and you might see precisely that.
Freedom of Speech is an American Constitutional amendment that prevents governmental restrictions on speech. Pentax Forums doesn't operate via the government so Freedom of Speech does not apply.

What is going on with you today? You seem very agitated.
06-10-2017, 03:57 PM   #445
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
What is going on with you today? You seem very agitated.
I have been on holiday for two week's (New England) and maybe he missed me.
06-10-2017, 03:59 PM   #446
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You know, that's not the only possible definition of freedom of speech - and then, there's such thing as The Rest Of The WorldTM

I'm not agitated. I'm strict regarding FUD.
I can't help but notice how both you and Ron are trying to steer this into discussing persons. Stop that, too.
06-10-2017, 04:14 PM - 1 Like   #447
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You know, that's not the only possible definition of freedom of speech - and then, there's such thing as The Rest Of The WorldTM

I'm not agitated. I'm strict regarding FUD.
I can't help but notice how both you and Ron are trying to steer this into discussing persons. Stop that, too.
Well the original one from the English Parliament's Bill of Rights of 1689 seems to only establish freedom of speech in Parliament. That one was the inspiration for the American and I think also the French ones which then lead to the UN one which might apply to you. And, of them, the American one would apply more so since the site is in the US. Either way, none of them really apply to this private web forum.

I can't speak for Ron, I wish he'd play nice. But you started this as a personal issue (your view that those of us discussing Tamron were spreading 'FUD' as you call it); Your very complaint is a personal one. So it is a case of pot calling the kettle black.

I can't help that you dislike the topics we are discussing, yet you have the option of disengage and stop viewing this thread. You have that freedom too.

Our discussion was friendly and unassuming until you came along like a gloomy cloud to rain on our conversation. I'm afraid if anyone is spreading FUD it is yourself. Can't we all just get along?
06-10-2017, 11:22 PM   #448
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Back on this topic. When the 50mm is coming this fiscal year, ending march 31th 2018, then the 85mm probably is still more then one year away. We might as well close the thread and open a new one when a mock-up is presented at next cp+.
06-11-2017, 02:27 AM - 1 Like   #449
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I can't speak for Ron, I wish he'd play nice. But you started this as a personal issue (your view that those of us discussing Tamron were spreading 'FUD' as you call it); Your very complaint is a personal one. So it is a case of pot calling the kettle black.

I can't help that you dislike the topics we are discussing, yet you have the option of disengage and stop viewing this thread. You have that freedom too.

Our discussion was friendly and unassuming until you came along like a gloomy cloud to rain on our conversation. I'm afraid if anyone is spreading FUD it is yourself. Can't we all just get along?
It's not my fault if some people are identifying themselves with the ideas they're expressing at one moment. Think about it: what if you're wrong, does that make you wrong as a person? (definitely not!). What if you change your mind, does that change you as a person? (definitely not!)
Then, there's the wording I used. "FUD can be harmful", as opposed to: "you want to harm Pentax". That is intentional; I'm not even questioning your motives and intentions, or rather I counted on you accepting my arguments and stop playing Ron's game.
Unfortunately, in such situations many people are closing their minds and become extremely stubborn, take it very personal and won't bulge from their initial position despite being presented with valid arguments.

Now, is it FUD or not? You acknowledged yourself that you're discussing the survival of Pentax (@Ricoh Imaging), building a theoretical scenario (presented as possible) in which it wouldn't survive. q.e.d.
If you don't accept that, then "what if Pentax won't survive by the end of the year?" must not be FUD either in your opinion. Or "what if Ricoh Imaging cancels all the lenses on the roadmap". All theoretical scenarios assuming a market contraction
By the way, I'm not the only one seeing this as FUD. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who saw people not considering Pentax because they're wary about its survival. We don't need more PentaxIsDoomedTM.

Can you point out to any piece of FUD I've spread lately (or ever, for that matter)? No? I didn't thought you could. This accusation is personal, because you're not attacking an idea of mine - it doesn't exist - but myself.
06-11-2017, 03:17 AM - 2 Likes   #450
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Please stay on topic folks, and not post any comments of a personal nature. Thanks.
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