[Chris Mak]

Speaking of Olympus: 4/3 is dead and burried, OK; but how about m4/3? This year they had as few products as Pentax: one camera, no lens.

Not quite!!!
Have a look:
http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-leaked-images-new-olympus-17mm-f1-2-45mm-f1-2-pro-lenses/

You see, unlike with Pentax, there are rumors going round with Olympus, and very substantial rumors......

Chris

[Kunzite]

Unlike Pentax, you say? On which universe?
Reference Exhibit at CP? 2017?RICOH IMAGING
http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/japan/products/lens/images/K_Mount_Lens.pdf

[normhead]

Agree with you 100% on this one. Their lukewarm answer to them leaving the DSLR business and the painfully slow pace of product release, not only premium products but any products, start to take its toll in people's confidence in the brand. Many long time users are now thinking twice before putting more money on Pentax gear, prefering to fall back in a wait and see stance.

I am so different from you guys.
Many long time users are also totally thrilled with the direction of the company. I don't need faster product releases, I can't afford what I'd like to own of what they already have out. New releases are just more stuff I can't afford.

There's the triumverate of new FF zooms, and all that excellent legacy glass.

I get really tired of all the folks who want to buy something new, just for the sake of buying something new.

One question, do all the naysayers demanding new releases own the DFA 28-105, the DFA 15-30, the DFA 24-70, the DFA + 70-200, and the DFA 150-450, the 77 ltd. the 31 ltd. the FA* 85 1.4, the DFA 100 macro?

What we have here is a bunch of hypocrites who haven't bought the best of what Pentax has to offer, complaining about them not releasing new stuff. Well folks, the money for them to produce what you want will come from you buying what they currently produce. If you aren't buying what they currently produce , you're part of the problem. You encourage them to produce more lenses by reducing their inventory of what they have. Whining on Pentax forum doesn't help even one little bit.

They haven't produced exactly what i want yet, but they've done what they had to do to compete with the big boys by releasing a full 2.8 "got everything covered" lens set.
Pentax's biggest problem with new lenses is the availability of legacy glass and many of us having a preference for it. As long as that's true, new releases are counter productive.

The people who's main thrust seems it "I want Ricoh to invest their money in producing a specific piece of glass so I can buy one can only be answered, by, "what gives you the right to decide where Ricoh should invest their money?" And followed by "how much modern Pentax glass do you own?" Have you actually made the purchases to suggest Ricoh should invest even 5 cents in what you want? Most people are asking for their to be gabs that are repeats of legacy glass that they never purchased and many of them won't purchase the new glass either. They just for some odd reason would feel better if it was there.

People seem to think their requests for new product are like money in the bank for pentad. Pentax doesn't think so. The only things that are going to impress Pentax are sales and profit. You're in or your out. You don't get to snipe from the side lines.

[Mistral75]

(...)

You see, unlike with Pentax, there are rumors going round with Olympus, and very substantial rumors......

Chris

Unlike Pentax, you say? On which universe?
Reference Exhibit at CP? 2017?RICOH IMAGING
http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/japan/products/lens/images/K_Mount_Lens.pdf

Since when are Ricoh Imaging considered as spreading rumours?

[MrNPhoto]

New lenses will be announced at CP+, most likely - and not before. At least we were told about the D FA* 50mm f/1.4 coming by the end of this fiscal year, and there's a rumor about the D FA* 85mm f/1.4 following shortly after.
Unless they make an exception, we won't be told about the K-3's successor until the official announcement (which means, leaks will start coming few days before).

Maybe, but there's a good track record of unannounced cameras and lenses being shown under glass at trade shows before the official announcement. Sometimes just 3D mockups (K-1, DFA*50), sometimes prototype-but-not-yet final production samples (645D, 60-250, 70-200, 150-450), sometimes pre-release products (K-S2, 70-200, 150-450, 16-85). The K-1 made a surprise visit to Photo Plus Expo last year. It would be reassuring just to see some more items under glass at the upcoming Photo Plus Expo and Salon de la Photo before next year's CP+. How about a DFA50 with glass in it, a 3D mockup of the DFA 85, or an unlabeled APS-C camera with a card next to it that read "High-performance APS-C prototype"?

[Fcsnt54]

Being serious is overrated.
New lenses will be announced at CP+, most likely - and not before. At least we were told about the D FA* 50mm f/1.4 coming by the end of this fiscal year, and there's a rumor about the D FA* 85mm f/1.4 following shortly after.
Unless they make an exception, we won't be told about the K-3's successor until the official announcement (which means, leaks will start coming few days before). The best information we can have right now is Ricoh Imaging's: "A successor to the K-3 II is being researched."

I believe things will be clarified at CP+, and perhaps further at Photokina. It's up to you if you'd wait or not; but there's nothing we can do to speed up the schedule. (side note: trying to steer as many people away from Pentax as possible doesn't work).

Speaking of Olympus: 4/3 is dead and burried, OK; but how about m4/3? This year they had as few products as Pentax: one camera, no lens.

They have about 3 or so lenses that are coming out, 25mm, 17mm, 45mm in the f1.2 range, and i cant remember if the 12-100 lens was this year or last year

[normhead]

They have about 3 or so lenses that are coming out, 25mm, 17mm, 45mm in the f1.2 range, and i cant remember if the 12-100 lens was this year or last year

And what's stopping you from switching if stat's what you want? WHy should Pentax produce lenses like that. I and many other established Pentax owners wouldn't buy them. Most of us don't care for even 1.4 glass, forget about 1.2. The 1.2 images club is one of the most neglected lens clubs on the forum. 60,000 Pentax users have spoken. My guess is investing in ƒ 1.2 glass production runs could bankrupt Pentax. With their small user base and so many non ƒ1.2 options, they couldn't sell them.

I wonder what percentage of the photographic community buys a camera based on the availability of ƒ1.2 glass. Whatever it is, the number of Pentax users interested is even less.

[Kunzite]

@MrNPhoto:
Lenses, yes; but cameras are exceptions, rather than the rule. The new APS-C flagship might be such an exception, but they'll use a major trade show to present it... which means CP+. IMO.
I'm not aware of the K-S2 being presented ahead of time; IIRC it was announced at CP+.

---------- Post added 17-10-17 at 06:25 PM ----------

They have about 3 or so lenses that are coming out, 25mm, 17mm, 45mm in the f1.2 range, and i cant remember if the 12-100 lens was this year or last year

And Pentax has 6 FF lenses, 1 APS-C lens and 2 645 lenses on the roadmap. Your point being?

[Mistral75]

They have about 3 or so lenses that are coming out, 25mm, 17mm, 45mm in the f1.2 range, and i cant remember if the 12-100 lens was this year or last year

Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 25mm f/1.2 Pro and M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-100mm f4 IS Pro were announced on 19 September 2016 (Photokina).

Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 17mm f/1.2 Pro and M.Zuiko Digital ED 45mm f/1.2 Pro are supposed to be announced on or before 26 October 2017 (PDN PhotoPlus Expo).

[Winder]

Personally, I am not asking for a giant leap. Four reasons why I really want a K3 successor next year:
1.) The elusive mirror flop. My K3 only does it now and then, but it is time to be rid of it.
2.) I never really liked the K3 sensor output that much, and the KP sensor/processing is simply looking better.
3.) I can never really be confident that the K3 AF nails it, having to check each and every shot in other than bright daylight contrast for accurate focus with the DA560. I have become convinced by spending so much time with the K3 behavior, that more focus points are needed, leading to smaller areas of AF sensitivity so I can confidently pick the desired spot for focus. Better C-AF would be welcome, but having the slow DA560, for me that is not a priority.
4.) better inbody SR, which is there already in the K1 and KP.

Really, this is all that is needed to keep me with Pentax. Seeing what Sony is doing with its bodies, I would say that I am asking for.... 10% of Sony's effort?
Chris

---------- Post added 10-17-17 at 02:35 PM ----------


Despite their size, which I would not be able to put up with anymore, having the Sony A7RII and Zeiss loxias, I never found the lens quality of the Zuiko SHG lenses anywhere ever again (although if I had the money, I could buy Zeiss Otus of course). Still miss them when going through old images, even though I have to look past the 4/3 sensor limitations (which were as awesome as the SHG quality)

Chris

The K-3 is a decent camera and at the time of its release it was competitive in many ways. The color output of the 24MP sensor is good with good light, but starts to fall apart when the quality of light falls. This is one area the K-5 did very well. I still like my K-3 with the 31mm LTD attached for B&W. When it comes to color the K-1 is amazing. I see a lot of good work by people who process the images in a way that compensates for the short falls of the sensor. They crush the blacks and desaturated the colors. If that is your style, then the K-3 is a great camera. I have never had a mirror issue with my K-3, or any issue. From a quality standpoint all of my Pentax cameras have work flawlessly.

I don't think Ricoh has auto-focus figured out yet. There really isn't much of a reason to introduce a new body if they can't take a big step forward in AF technology. Just a couple of years ago Sony and Fuji had very crappy AF and they have now moved past Ricoh and in a big way. Nikon with the D500, D5, & D850 have raised the bar on DSLRs, but it is mirrorless that is hurting Ricoh. The speed that mirrorless is evolving is in sharp contrast to the speed that Ricoh is responding. For most people DSLR sensors have been more than good enough for many years. If you are working in a studio at base ISO even m4/3 is more than enough for professional results. The competition is in the support technologies like AF, image processing, video, connectivity, hybrid OVF/EVFs, and the user experience.

I know someone will chime in with a story about how their great, great, great, grandfather was a multi-millionaire photographer shooting extreme motor-sports with and 8x10 view camera back during the civil war. They still have all of their great, great, great grandfathers RAW files.

[CarlJF]

I am so different from you guys.
Many long time users are also totally thrilled with the direction of the company. I don't need faster product releases, I can't afford what I'd like to own of what they already have out. New releases are just more stuff I can't afford.

This why I said "many users" and not "all".

I get really tired of all the folks who want to buy something new, just for the sake of buying something new.

No, it's not buying new for the sake of buying new. It's wanting/buying something better or up to 2017 standards. Some lenses in the lineup are something like 10-20 years old and are due, if not overdue, for an update.

What we have here is a bunch of hypocrites who haven't bought the best of what Pentax has to offer, complaining about them not releasing new stuff. Well folks, the money for them to produce what you want will come from you buying what they currently produce. If you aren't buying what they , you're part of the problem. You encourage them to produce more lenses by reducing their inventory of what they have. Whining on Pentax forum doesn't help even one little bit.

Sorry, but if Ricoh doesn't want to risk money to launch products that I want to buy, I don't see why I would risk mine to buy products I don't want hoping this will encourage them to produce something I want. I don't see why I would replace my old screwdrive lenses with other, often the same, screwdrive lenses hoping this will encourage them to lauch a modern DC or PLM one. I'm not there to please Ricoh or a charity organization for them.

They haven't produced exactly what i want yet, but they've done what they had to do to compete with the big boys by releasing a full 2.8 "got everything covered" lens set.

And this is the difference between you and me. You have bought even if they haven't produced exactly what you want. Before buying, I prefer to wait and see if they will produce what I want. It's okay if Pentax want to take their time before releasing products. But then, I don't feel rushed either to throw money at them until they do...

[MrNPhoto]

@MrNPhoto:
Lenses, yes; but cameras are exceptions, rather than the rule. The new APS-C flagship might be such an exception, but they'll use a major trade show to present it... which means CP+. IMO.
I'm not aware of the K-S2 being presented ahead of time; IIRC it was announced at CP+.

The K-S2 was shown under glass at CES 2015. The 645D made many appearances at shows, in various forms, before it was announced. The K-1 was shown as 3D mockups in 2015, then as a pre-production prototype at Photo Plus Expo 2015 and Salon de la Photo 2015. The K-10 prototype was shown at PMA 2006.

Given the lack of product releases or announcements (with prices and ship dates) this year, Ricoh might consider giving folks a peek at some items under glass, especially if they are far enough along in development to be ready for introduction at CP+. The end of the year is when many folks may be considering making major purchases, and getting a tease of upcoming products from Ricoh may help convince them to keep a few dollars in their pockets for after the new year.

[Winder]

Speaking of Olympus: 4/3 is dead and burried, OK; but how about m4/3? This year they had as few products as Pentax: one camera, no lens.

The problem with the comparison is that m4/3 is a relatively new system that already has 21 primes, 29 zooms, & 4 Macros. All of these are relatively new lenses. The lens line-up for m4/3 is pretty well filled out. Both Panasonic and Olympus have done a very good job getting new, high quality glass to the market. Ricoh on the other hand has a dated lens line up with a lot of holes to fill. The 645 system is in desperate need of help. I know Ricoh isn't Fuji, and people keep pointing out that its not fair to compare Ricoh to Fuji when it comes to lens design and productions, but when you look at how fast Fuji as brought new, high quality glass to market it is obvious which company is dedicating more resources to the business. I know Ricoh will probably never be able to compete with Fuji, but it would be nice to see them try a little harder.

[virusn3t]

One question, do all the naysayers demanding new releases own the DFA 28-105, the DFA 15-30, the DFA 24-70, the DFA + 70-200, and the DFA 150-450, the 77 ltd. the 31 ltd. the FA* 85 1.4, the DFA 100 macro?
.

I got the DFA28-105, DFA15-30, DFA*70-200, the 31ltd, the 43ltd, the 77ltd and the DFA100 macro, also the Pentax K1

The 24-70 is on my list for next year, and when i got the chance i buy the Zeiss ZK 85 instead of the FA*85.

The 150-450 isnt not something i need, a 300mm prime maybe, but i could settle for a 200mm macro

The problem with us, the relative new users is the legacy lenses are often hard to get, and when is available, is as expensive as the modern gear, so, we want the release of the new lenses as se cant get the third parties lensed either, i wouldnt be here nagging about the DFA*85 if i could just go to amazon, BH or Adorama and order the Sigma Art.

[normhead]

Ricoh on the other hand has a dated lens line up with a lot of holes to fill.

Is there a single lens in the whole m4/3 line up, 1.2 or not, that can give you what an FA* 85 1.4 can give you? I think not, I think this lenses are a deliberate last ditch attempt to keep market share that have grown tired of the limitations of m4/3 and are ready to move on.

The 645 system is in desperate need of help.

Because you own a 645z and find it inadequate, or is this another factless debating point?