[Kunzite]

May I be allowed a few stupid questions? What is behind the delay in getting this magical 85mm f/1.4 on the shelves? It is not like Pentax haven't got any suitable designs in the archives.

To me, the FA* of yesteryear can just be revived with the latest HD coating. It was pretty good back then. Has the game really moved on so much that it is no longer up to the standards set by the competition?

Likewise, why not revive a real classic like the A* 85mm f/1.4? Judging by the crazy fleabay prices, there is a market for it. The same goes for the legendary K 85mm f/1.8. Just add a great big focus motor and call it good. Or is it not that simple?

It might even be a corporate rivalry thing. Decades ago, Kawasaki was just about ready to put a four cylinder 750 bike on the market. Honda pre-empted them with the classic CB750. Instead of releasing their product and cashing in on the 750 four hype, Kawasaki shelved their project and went back to the drawing board. The result was the fabulous 900, another two wheeled classic. It was years in the making and the delay must have cost Kawasaki a pile of money.

A non-technical explanation might be that the rights to these classic designs do not reside with the current owners of the Pentax trademark. Who knows? So many questions...

Just reusing old designs is not a solution - and no, a few pieces being sold for crazy prices just because there's no good alternative is no indication that it would sell well as a new lens.

It's never that simple. You don't "just add a great big focus motor", you build the lens' barrel from scratch to match current requirements including a "great big focus motor".
Besides, you don't save anything by going with an old design. It's as difficult to make as a lens with new optics. You'd be just restricting yourself to obsolete optical performance, when you have an excellent in-house optical design team!

Sorry, but you're looking for shortcuts when there are none. Releasing a D FA* 85mm with the old A* optics (or even the FA*'s IF optics)? Really? This D FA* will be made to be top notch for at least a decade; old film-era designs just can't do that. They didn't make the D FA* 50mm a 15 elements lens because they had extra glass in their stores...

There are no shortcuts. Expect an excellent D FA* 85mm f/1.4 instead. It will be ready when it's ready.

[normhead]

FI dunno, from the current lineup I personally miss the 70-200 ƒ4 the most, since the ƒ2.8 is too expensive and a bit too heavy. I am considering the 60-250, but I don't feel brave enough to make modifications to WR lenses.

Cropping a DA*60-250 image to 4x3 gets rid of the vignetting and you still have a roughly 6500x4900 image. That's still a 31 MP image. Cropped to 16:9 you still get 30 MP. Only if you're stuck on 3x2 image size and uncropped, does the 60-250 present problems. I haven't modified mine.

[Rondec]

May I be allowed a few stupid questions? What is behind the delay in getting this magical 85mm f/1.4 on the shelves? It is not like Pentax haven't got any suitable designs in the archives.

To me, the FA* of yesteryear can just be revived with the latest HD coating. It was pretty good back then. Has the game really moved on so much that it is no longer up to the standards set by the competition?

Likewise, why not revive a real classic like the A* 85mm f/1.4? Judging by the crazy fleabay prices, there is a market for it. The same goes for the legendary K 85mm f/1.8. Just add a great big focus motor and call it good. Or is it not that simple?

It might even be a corporate rivalry thing. Decades ago, Kawasaki was just about ready to put a four cylinder 750 bike on the market. Honda pre-empted them with the classic CB750. Instead of releasing their product and cashing in on the 750 four hype, Kawasaki shelved their project and went back to the drawing board. The result was the fabulous 900, another two wheeled classic. It was years in the making and the delay must have cost Kawasaki a pile of money.

A non-technical explanation might be that the rights to these classic designs do not reside with the current owners of the Pentax trademark. Who knows? So many questions...

I have said elsewhere, but I will repeat it. The whole point of these designs is to try to get medium format image quality with full frame cameras. This requires very high quality designs -- much more so than required by 35mm film. If you don't need this sort of quality, then you are better off finding a copy of the FA *85, Sigma 85, or even FA 77, but I believe that Pentax is aiming high with the DFA * line up and they should be worth the wait.

[Scorpio71GR]

My modified 60-260 is a full frame lens. It does not vingette anymore than my Tamron 70-200. It vignettes less than my DFA 28-105. Optically the 60-250 is perfect. If they could open the baffle up and upgrade the SDM motor the lens would be a perfect 10. Modifying the 60-250 is not difficult. It requires removing six screws and using super glue.

K-1 and modified DA*60-250 @ 60mm F4 wide open.



As for the DFA*85 that is a lens we really need. An updated wide angle prime is a must. The monstrous 15-30 is just not for everyone. I would love to see something along the line of a DFA*20-35 f4 myself.

[monochrome]

As for the DFA*85 that is a lens we really need. An updated wide angle prime is a must. The monstrous 15-30 is just not for everyone. I would love to see something along the line of a DFA*20-35 f4 myself.

A short zoom would be very nice to have, for sure. I would bet we’ll see a lot of primes - some combination of 20, 24, 28, 35, *85, and maybe 105 or 135, in a mix of of fast D FA* and smaller, slower D FA Limited standards; and a couple variable aperture or f/4 zooms of D FA28~105 or DA20~40 Limited quality before we see another FF * zoom or replacement for the Tamron-based lenses. I’d bet on new DA*16-50 and *50-135 to complement the *11-18 (and an entirely new platform for an APSc flagship body). I think they might just keep running SMC batches of The Three Princesses until people stop buying them. It costs no development money to do that.

Don’t forget Pentax has said they are designing lenses - especially ‘*’ lenses - for the future, to resolve the next generation of sensors and the ones following that. The production life of a good lens is a decade at least and they expect these new lens designs to be competitive for their entire lives.

[thibs]

DFA*135/1.8 ?

Besides shortcuts are acceptable in case of cheap lenses (DA50/1.8, DA35/2.4...).

You really don't want a top end lens line to be filled with shortcuts.
Not if you want to be taken seriously.

[aurele]

You really don't want a top end lens line to be filled with shortcuts.
Not if you want to be taken seriously.

And if you want people to buy it.

Who would pony up 600€ and more for something noisy, or slow, or unrealiable ? Nobody !

Pentax ain't a Canon or Nikon and can't afford to create half baked product with shortcut to save like 10€ on a product with taking the risk that people won't buy it because of that damn cheap shortcut !

[thibs]

And if you want people to buy it.

Who would pony up 600€ and more for something noisy, or slow, or unrealiable ? Nobody !

Pentax ain't a Canon or Nikon and can't afford to create half baked product with shortcut to save like 10€ on a product with taking the risk that people won't buy it because of that damn cheap shortcut !

Absolutely.

[normhead]

My modified 60-260 is a full frame lens. It does not vingette anymore than my Tamron 70-200. It vignettes less than my DFA 28-105. Optically the 60-250 is perfect. If they could open the baffle up and upgrade the SDM motor the lens would be a perfect 10. Modifying the 60-250 is not difficult. It requires removing six screws and using super glue.

K-1 and modified DA*60-250 @ 60mm F4 wide open.



As for the DFA*85 that is a lens we really need. An updated wide angle prime is a must. The monstrous 15-30 is just not for everyone. I would love to see something along the line of a DFA*20-35 f4 myself.

It feels like you and me have been singing that song for years now.

I don't know what part of the "the patent for the DA*60-250 says it's a full frame lens" it is that people don't get. The fact that Pentax claims it's not is irrelevant, and known only to them. The patent is filed and can't be changed. The tech specs of the lens are full frame. End of discussion.

And a 20-35 ƒ4 would be awesome.

Altogether now, everyone join in the chorus.
"if the DA*60-250 isn't a full frame lens, Pentax doesn't make any full rame lenses."

[Rondec]

It feels like you and me have been singing that song for years now.

I don't know what part of the "the patent for the DA*60-250 says it's a full frame lens" it is that people don't get. The fact that Pentax claims it's not is irrelevant, and known only to them. The patent is filed and can't be changed. The tech specs of the lens are full frame. End of discussion.

And a 20-35 ƒ4 would be awesome.

Altogether now, everyone join in the chorus.
"if the DA*60-250 isn't a full frame lens, Pentax doesn't make any full rame lenses."

The question isn't what we consider to be a full frame lens. It is what Pentax considers to be a full frame lens. Clearly (at least for their star lenses) they want something that has good border sharpness and minimal vignetting wide open.

I posted this elsewhere, but this the DA *55 at f1.4 on a K-1. To me, it has decent performance. A bit of vignetting, but easily fixed in post if I wanted to do that.



Is the DA *55 a full frame lens? For me, yes. For Pentax, no. They don't have a lens profile for it in full frame mode on the K-1 (although they could easily make one), but looking at the DFA *50 specs, I guess I can see why they don't acknowledge the DA *55 (even though I think it performs better on full frame than the FA 50 does, which they do acknowledge).

[monochrome]

At some point in the Development Story on the DFA*50/1.4 the product manager describes developing lenses today that are good enough to resolve future higher resolution sensors. It reads as if Pentax lens designers have a pretty good read on what is
Coming in sensor evolution. Perhaps the Development Team believes the DA*60-250, while a good enough FF lens today, won’t stand up well on future sensors.

[normhead]

At some point in the Development Story on the DFA*50/1.4 the product manager describes developing lenses today that are good enough to resolve future higher resolution sensors. It reads as if Pentax lens designers have a pretty good read on what is
Coming in sensor evolution. Perhaps the Development Team believes the DA*60-250, while a good enough FF lens today, won’t stand up well on future sensors.

And the more judicious of us will decide if we want those lenses and sensors, when we see what the provide for our images.
I looked at the images of the DFA 50 1.4 and decided the 55 1.4 was good enough for me. I'll take the DA*55 and keep the extra $1100 CAD and be a happy camper. And its quite possible the DFA 70-200 will have the same effect on others. They'll look at the difference in IQ and say the 60-250 is still good enough for me. For a lot of my images, the DA 55-300 does a fine job.

There may be new hi res sensors coming and Pentax may be betting on that. But whether or not i will buy one of those high res sensors is another question. And I certainly won't be upgrading to any of the new hi-spec high cost lenses until I know that I will.

If i shoot another 10 years with my K-1 and K-3 will I really be suffering?

The K-3 resolution mapped to full frame gives you 51 MP. If the DA*60-250 can handle that pixel density then it can handle 51 MP on a K-1. Just how far into the future is Pentax looking? Are they asking us to pay a premium now for lenses that won't be needed until 10 or 15 years from now?

Not to mention that 28 MP APS_c and 51 MP FF just haven't done all that well in the consumer market to date. There are a lot of assumptions going on here that fall too close to "high margins, not market share" . More margin is good for Pentax, but is it good for you?

These kinds of things need to be examined a lot more closely. What Pentax officially believes is heavily influenced by their marketing department.

[Kunzite]

"It's adequate on my 36MP K-1" is not their goal, for a lens supposed to be sold for at least a decade.
The 40+ MP sensors are already getting old. Lenses like the Sigma Art are universally praised, despite their size, weight and higher price.
And we're asking why they didn't pursue mediocrity?

normhead: you don't have to pay a premium. You can just get any of the existing inferior 50mm lenses.
And I had the 60-250, I disagree that Ricoh could just transform it into a FF lens. A better 70-200 is the way to go.

[monochrome]

I think it’s great that we can buy all these tiers of Pentax 50mm lenses. Some day we’ll have something like that for the major fl’s and zooms.

AFA removing the baffle on the DA*60-250, depends how many thousands are in warehouse inventory. Do you expect them to unbox the existing stock, re-work them, rebox and relabel them and then sell them at the existing price? Do you expect them to firesale the existing stock to make a newer version available now? Or do you think maybe Pentax will deal with updating the 60-250 when the existing stock is sold, whenever that should happen to be?

[RGlasel]

I think it’s great that we can buy all these tiers of Pentax 50mm lenses.

Using legacy lenses was my gateway to a Pentax DSLR and is probably responsible for getting 99% of the people on this board hooked on the Pentax brand in spite of what Pentax can't offer. But the Aretha Franklin lenses are what will provide a steady stream of customers for the company that manufactures new Pentax products. The D-FA* 85 will command more respect than a full-frame wide angle prime and will attract new customers who have never experimented with Pentax in the past; if it takes this long to get the new high class 85mm introduced, I shudder to think how long it will take to get a D-FA* 35mm to market when the cravings are much weaker. APS-C will always be there to keep existing addicts sated, but high-rollers with money to spend on their habits will be drawn to bigger formats and bigger lenses and that's where the action is going.