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04-21-2017, 05:10 AM   #196
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
This is decidedly the era of alternative facts...

HD D FA★ 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW: 100% Ricoh Imaging
HD D FA 150-450mm f/4.5-5.6 ED DC AW: 100% Ricoh Imaging
HD D FA 24-70mm f/2.8 ED SDM WR: rebranded Tamron
HD D FA 15-30mm f/2.8 SDM WR: rebranded Tamron
HD D FA 28-105mm f/3.5-5.6 ED DC WR: 100% Ricoh Imaging

D FA★ 50mm f/1.4: Ricoh Imaging
D FA★ 85mm f/1.4: Ricoh Imaging
Okay, my bad. I'll amend my post above. But I stand by my general... let's not say conclusions but, rather, concerns.

04-21-2017, 08:07 AM   #197
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
....
Ricoh tells us they want to grow Pentax but, while the cameras they make are great, we're not really seeing any innovation, are we?
Good grief! How in the world can you say this?

Recent Pentax cameras are stuffed to the gills with innovation:
* the K-1 was in the top 3 on DXO when it was tested for IQ
* astrotracer
* pixelshift
* automatic horizon leveling
* composition-adjust
* anti-moire controls
* the K-1 stilty-tilty screen
* night-mode back panel
* on-camera LEDs
* much improved AF
* much improved 5-axis stabilization
* interval composite
* function-dial + setting dial

And, most importantly, all this goodness for a competition-crushing price.

Honestly, it's Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Fuji that are lagging on innovation.
04-21-2017, 08:12 AM - 4 Likes   #198
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1. Put a full frame sensor in a K-mount body the size of the K-01
2. Sell at $1000
3. Profit.
04-21-2017, 08:28 AM   #199
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
3. Profit.
Somehow I doubt that.

04-21-2017, 08:55 AM   #200
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Somehow I doubt that.
Well they'll get my money, especially if it looks just like the K-01!
04-21-2017, 09:07 AM   #201
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Good grief! How in the world can you say this?

Recent Pentax cameras are stuffed to the gills with innovation:
* the K-1 was in the top 3 on DXO when it was tested for IQ
* astrotracer
* pixelshift
* automatic horizon leveling
* composition-adjust
* anti-moire controls
* the K-1 stilty-tilty screen
* night-mode back panel
* on-camera LEDs
* much improved AF
* much improved 5-axis stabilization
* interval composite
* function-dial + setting dial

And, most importantly, all this goodness for a competition-crushing price.

Honestly, it's Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Fuji that are lagging on innovation.
All of that is wonderful... but we've seen most if it elsewhere before. And it's true that the AF is much improved. But it's still not class-leading. Don't misunderstand me: I'm not saying Pentax's aren't good. And I'm not saying they're not good value. Remember, I have three Pentaxes in my signature. The K1 is excellent but It's a brave new world and it's going to take more to become one of the leading brands again. Pentax is still moving along in incremental steps - and is barely marketing its products at all.

At this rate, the camera market may collapse before they've secured enough share to guarantee survival over the next decade or two. They need to produce cameras that instantly become THE ones have above all others in their class. That's what I want because I want Pentax to be one of the survivors. My concern is that Ricoh doesn't have enough resources and technical chops to do it anymore. I'd love to be proven wrong.

And you feel Sony and Fuji are lacking innovation, you haven't been paying attention. They may not be for everybody but they're not lacking innovation.

Last edited by Biro; 04-21-2017 at 09:14 AM.
04-21-2017, 09:19 AM   #202
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HD D FA★ 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW, HD D FA 150-450mm f/4.5-5.6 ED DC AW, D FA★ 50mm f/1.4, D FA★ 85mm f/1.4: all contract made by Sigma, Long time Cooperator with Ricoh, These lens are marked made in Japan, Pentax only has production for lens' in Vietnam, nothing wrong in this, as start up costs are low and if sucessfull you can then introduce your own version.
04-21-2017, 09:29 AM   #203
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
All of that is wonderful... but we've seen most if it elsewhere before. And it's true that the AF is much improved. But it's still not class-leading. Don't misunderstand me: I'm not saying Pentax's aren't good. And I'm not saying they're not good value. Remember, I have three Pentaxes in my signature. The K1 is excellent but It's a brave new world and it's going to take more to become one of the leading brands again. Pentax is still moving along in incremental steps - and is barely marketing its products at all.

At this rate, the camera market may collapse before they've secured enough share to guarantee survival over the next decade or two. They need to produce cameras that instantly become THE ones have above all others in their class. That's what I want because I want Pentax to be one of the survivors. My concern is that Ricoh doesn't have enough resources and technical chops to do it anymore. I'd love to be proven wrong.

And you feel Sony and Fuji are lacking innovation, you haven't been paying attention. They may not be for everybody but they're not lacking innovation.
Theta is well-regarded in that growing segment. I'm excited about the 4k version!

04-21-2017, 09:30 AM   #204
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QuoteOriginally posted by Snappertim Quote
HD D FA★ 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW, HD D FA 150-450mm f/4.5-5.6 ED DC AW, D FA★ 50mm f/1.4, D FA★ 85mm f/1.4: all contract made by Sigma, Long time Cooperator with Ricoh, These lens are marked made in Japan, Pentax only has production for lens' in Vietnam, nothing wrong in this, as start up costs are low and if sucessfull you can then introduce your own version.
Alternative facts, again...

https://www.ephotozine.com/articles/pentax-70-200mm-review-29351/images/high...1428508479.jpg

https://www.ephotozine.com/articles/pentax-150-450mm-lens-review-27359/image...1428508663.jpg
Attached Images
 
04-21-2017, 09:31 AM   #205
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QuoteOriginally posted by Snappertim Quote
HD D FA★ 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW, HD D FA 150-450mm f/4.5-5.6 ED DC AW, D FA★ 50mm f/1.4, D FA★ 85mm f/1.4: all contract made by Sigma, Long time Cooperator with Ricoh, These lens are marked made in Japan, Pentax only has production for lens' in Vietnam, nothing wrong in this, as start up costs are low and if sucessfull you can then introduce your own version.
Some would call this "alternative facts"; I'm saying, lies.
04-21-2017, 09:38 AM   #206
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The word to register in your mind is "ASSEMBLED" who made the components and in what country, and whos factory, early 70-200 I saw at demonstration day before release and before the witheld from market problem, was marked Made in Japan. !!
04-21-2017, 09:45 AM - 1 Like   #207
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All current Pentax lenses, but the Tamron-rebadged and Tamron-manufactured ones, are labelled "Assembled in Vietnam".

Concerning the "early 70-200m you saw at demonstration day before release", it does not occur to you that, as a prototype lens, it could have been manufactured by the (Japanese) R&D team or by a subcontractor close to the R&D team?
04-21-2017, 10:12 AM - 1 Like   #208
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
All of that is wonderful... but we've seen most if it elsewhere before. And it's true that the AF is much improved. But it's still not class-leading. Don't misunderstand me: I'm not saying Pentax's aren't good. And I'm not saying they're not good value. Remember, I have three Pentaxes in my signature. The K1 is excellent but It's a brave new world and it's going to take more to become one of the leading brands again. Pentax is still moving along in incremental steps - and is barely marketing its products at all.

At this rate, the camera market may collapse before they've secured enough share to guarantee survival over the next decade or two. They need to produce cameras that instantly become THE ones have above all others in their class. That's what I want because I want Pentax to be one of the survivors. My concern is that Ricoh doesn't have enough resources and technical chops to do it anymore. I'd love to be proven wrong.

And you feel Sony and Fuji are lacking innovation, you haven't been paying attention. They may not be for everybody but they're not lacking innovation.
To me, Pentax has created a class-leading body and Ricoh's statements seem to imply they are making good money on the K-1. From my perspective, Canon and Nikon are lagging horribly, and even Sony and Fuji lack most of that list of K-1 innovations.

But the deeper issue is that I think Pentax already has enough share to guarantee survival because marketshare really is not as important as it used to be.

What's interesting is how the internet has changed retail. It used to be that companies had to appeal to the mass market because that was the only way to reach consumers. Retailers were the gatekeepers and if a manufacturer couldn't promise a sufficient volume of sales, the retailer wouldn't carry the product. In fact if you talked to most manufacturers, they considered the retailer (not the consumer) to be their customer.

But that's simply not true anymore. The internet makes retailers a lot less important and reduces the need for mass-market appeal. Places like PF, DPR, Petapixel, Google, etc. help Pentax reach it's niche and find photographers who want what Pentax offers and who don't give a rats ass about sports action AF or 4K video (or any video for that matter). That lets Pentax focus it's innovation on stills and landscape without having to worry about creating cameras that appeal to everyone.
04-21-2017, 10:17 AM - 1 Like   #209
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Some would call this "alternative facts"; I'm saying, lies.
+1

There is a lot of those the last couple of weeks. And often so incredibly dumb lies it's sad how the level goes down every day.
04-21-2017, 10:19 AM - 1 Like   #210
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
All current Pentax lenses, but the Tamron-rebadged and Tamron-manufactured ones, are labelled "Assembled in Vietnam".

Concerning the "early 70-200m you saw at demonstration day before release", it does not occur to you that, as a prototype lens, it could have been manufactured by the (Japanese) R&D team or by a subcontractor close to the R&D team?
Indeed. Assuming what he said is true.
I don't trust his claims, don't forget, he "knows" even about the D FA* 50mm and 85mm - for the latter we didn't even had a 3d-printed mock-up, and claims that Sigma is a "long time cooperator" with Pentax. He's making things up.

Also, we found the patents - Ricoh patents - for the D FA* 70-200 f/2.8 and D FA 28-105, among other Pentax/Ricoh lenses.
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