Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
03-09-2017, 09:27 AM   #46
Pentaxian
mecrox's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,303
QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Remember that the KAF4 mount brings electronic aperture control to Pentax. Without that an Adapter for autoaperture will rely on a mechanically linked aperture and an adapter may be very difficult to implement. With electronic aperture this problems goes away - sadly so does compatibility with the majority of lenses ever made for Pentax. Rock and a hard place? Hopefully they can create an adapter with a mechanical link that is both reliable and compact and rationally priced. If so then this approach (similar to Canon M) could be possible. Without that the adapter may be fragile, large, and overly expensive or the body may require some compromises.
Then offer two adapters, one for the future and one for the past. At some stage Pentax have to loosen the bonds of Legacy because they will otherwise die a slow death from an ageing user base which gradually buys less and less. A new mirrorless line would need to pull in fresh users. Also, large numbers of people only buy a lens or two, perhaps the original camera kit, so not everyone would necessarily want an adapter.

03-09-2017, 11:25 AM   #47
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2012
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,140
QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
I never minded the size and shape of the K-01. And I really liked its simplified controls. But the slow autofocus, even after the firmware update, along with a rear LCD that was invisible in bright sunlight killed it for me. I eventually sold mine.
That is pretty close to the way I feel as well. I used MF lenses almost exclusively with the K-01.
03-09-2017, 01:22 PM   #48
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: mid nth coast,nsw
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,634
QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
a line of mirrorless cameras designed to be all in the family makes a lot of sense.
QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Canon's M line looks a good way to go.
QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
a quality adapter allowing use of existing DSLR lenses and everything else (controls, menus, etc.) kept as nearly as possible the same so that the experience for the user is seamless from mirrorless to full-format
Canons M series wasn't so good early on.Its caught up on the stills front though.Video is still back in the dark ages.


Ive handled and shot with a friends M3, it felt quite nice and the images were pretty good.


Canons latest M5 has excellent reviews and the cheap AF adapters available make it a no brainer for Canonites to choose it over another brand.
03-09-2017, 03:17 PM   #49
Banned




Join Date: May 2010
Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,541
QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
When/if both Nikon and Canon have larger-format mirrorless lines then Pentax will be obliged to follow suit or lose customers and become the only camera brand not to offer a larger-format mirrorless solution. .
For such a statement an F- would be granted in your marketing exam.
Even better if they all switch to mirrorless — let them do that, please. Then Pentax will thrive with its own unique position, for people who could not be bothered. That is the whole idea of not following the same suit, because in terms of marketing — it is suicidal.
The issue is not, after all, about a certain technology, but about a crowd mindset; if you follow it, you are doomed, and in terms of marketing distinction, you are as good as dead.

03-09-2017, 03:47 PM - 1 Like   #50
Pentaxian
mecrox's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,303
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
For such a statement an F- would be granted in your marketing exam.
Even better if they all switch to mirrorless — let them do that, please. Then Pentax will thrive with its own unique position, for people who could not be bothered. That is the whole idea of not following the same suit, because in terms of marketing — it is suicidal.
The issue is not, after all, about a certain technology, but about a crowd mindset; if you follow it, you are doomed, and in terms of marketing distinction, you are as good as dead.
These are just cameras you know. This isn't about Ricoh standing in for Davie "Full Frame" Crockett and making a last stand at the Alamo fighting off hordes of rabid mirrorless fans with the world's only remaining DSLR. Pentax make very good DSLRs but time and life will change and with them perhaps what buyers want. Maybe that will involve a Pentax mirrorless camera, maybe it won't. That depends on how the market and the business evolve. Personally I think a mirrorless camera is more likely than not eventually, but we'll see.

Last edited by mecrox; 03-09-2017 at 05:23 PM.
03-09-2017, 08:09 PM   #51
Pentaxian
johnmflores's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somerville, NJ
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,264
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
For such a statement an F- would be granted in your marketing exam.
Even better if they all switch to mirrorless let them do that, please. Then Pentax will thrive with its own unique position, for people who could not be bothered. That is the whole idea of not following the same suit, because in terms of marketing it is suicidal.
The issue is not, after all, about a certain technology, but about a crowd mindset; if you follow it, you are doomed, and in terms of marketing distinction, you are as good as dead.
Over the past 40 years, Pentax has managed to mistime each and every seismic shift in the industry - the shift to AF and digital most notably. Will the shift to mirrorless be strike three?
03-09-2017, 08:55 PM   #52
Banned




Join Date: May 2010
Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,541
QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Over the past 40 years, Pentax has managed to mistime each and every seismic shift in the industry - the shift to AF and digital most notably. Will the shift to mirrorless be strike three?
Asahi never bothered with Pentax — Asahi was interested in industrial patents and milking big money from them. Pentax was their hobby business. Unfortunately, Pentax under Ricoh is in same exact position, but let's hope Ricoh is better than Asahi.

Mirrorless is a fad, and investing much in fad is the waste of resources.

When tech is ready for the entire industry to economise, Pentax may come with pentaprisms that have EVF overlay. And guess what — who would really care then is the camera a DSLR or a mirrorless, if the imaging capabilities are same, and there is still bonus on top. Only the most unwarranted tech freaks and so called 'electric impulse purists' will scream foul, but they are not sane audience to begin with.

Now is their time, but time of photographers will come again.
03-09-2017, 08:58 PM   #53
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 22,733
QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Over the past 40 years, Pentax has managed to mistime each and every seismic shift in the industry - the shift to AF and digital most notably. Will the shift to mirrorless be strike three?
You omitted the shift to bayonet. They mistimed AF on the 'too soon' side. They tried AF first but abandoned their technology.

They did get the pentaprism and reflex mirror right but those were 60 years ago, and multi-coating 50.

They might surprise us soon.

03-09-2017, 09:05 PM - 1 Like   #54
Pentaxian
johnmflores's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somerville, NJ
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,264
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Asahi never bothered with Pentax Asahi was interested in industrial patents and milking big money from them. Pentax was their hobby business. Unfortunately, Pentax under Ricoh is in same exact position, but let's hope Ricoh is better than Asahi.

Mirrorless is a fad, and investing much in fad is the waste of resources.

When tech is ready for the entire industry to economise, Pentax may come with pentaprisms that have EVF overlay. And guess what who would really care then is the camera a DSLR or a mirrorless, if the imaging capabilities are same, and there is still bonus on top. Only the most unwarranted tech freaks and so called 'electric impulse purists' will scream foul, but they are not sane audience to begin with.

Now is their time, but time of photographers will come again.
Zoom your timescale out a bit further and you might come to realize that mirrors are actually the fad and niche embraced by just a small corner of the photography market.
03-10-2017, 08:51 AM - 1 Like   #55
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Biro's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,185
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Mirrorless is a fad, and investing much in fad is the waste of resources.
I don't mean to flame you but if you really believe this statement is true, you are in for a rude awakening. Mind you, I'm not saying Pentax should rush into anything if it's not ready. But it won't be long before we begin seeing mirrorless full-frame cameras from different makers (we have Sony already), including the big two. And Pentax may be left behind once again. We'll see.
03-10-2017, 09:49 AM - 1 Like   #56
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Cumming, GA
Posts: 703
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
I don't mean to flame you but if you really believe this statement is true, you are in for a rude awakening. Mind you, I'm not saying Pentax should rush into anything if it's not ready. But it won't be long before we begin seeing mirrorless full-frame cameras from different makers (we have Sony already), including the big two. And Pentax may be left behind once again. We'll see.
Left behind once again. ... ????
Who cares... compete on making images ... and Pentax has been ahead of the game all the time on IQ dollar for dollar. (A 36mpx FF with IBIS and weather sealed with pixel shift is far superior a system than the "competition" for image making that is under $2k)

Milc has there inherent disadvantages let alone the battery life. The whole mirror box idea offers a parallel path to image composing and potentially infinite battery time for creative thinking and composing in between shots. Also acts as a dust barrier during lens transplants (changes). Thus probably increases the cost of manufacturing as well but it is considered necessary to maximize on battery life and bright light use. Mirrorless is like driving a car with an LCD view instead of a transparent windshield and that is scary to me.
03-10-2017, 09:50 AM   #57
retired nerd
Loyal Site Supporter
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 9,233
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Asahi never bothered with Pentax Asahi was interested in industrial patents and milking big money from them. Pentax was their hobby business. Unfortunately, Pentax under Ricoh is in same exact position, but let's hope Ricoh is better than Asahi.
You must be young. I don't have personal knowledge of what Asahi thought of their Pentax line, but I do know that Takumar and Pentax were highly respected and successful lines when I bought my first Pentax camera in 1979. Even today, at another photography forum where I'm a regular, other regulars continue to have high regard for Pentax and will say things like "I hope they succeed; I continue to have good memories of them even though I no longer buy their products".

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Mirrorless is a fad, and investing much in fad is the waste of resources.
You are entitled to an opinion, but only time will tell. My opinion is that MILC will become the primary lower-tier line, and a brand that doesn't have MILC will suffer under a serious marketing disadvantage because many beginners will be only vaguely familiar with them.I don't see any point to arguing about opinions, because time will show which is correct.
03-10-2017, 12:00 PM   #58
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
GlassJunkie's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: St Petersburg
Photos: Albums
Posts: 382
Lively discussion I see.... Time to throw some petrol on the fire....

I have exhaustively read this thread, (some entries 3+ times, I'm getting old)...

IMHO:

I see EVF/MILC cameras as a replacement for rangefinder cameras (from the 1960s/70s/80s). The difference is a simple technological issue: RFs didn't show the snapper what the actual frame would look like, due to parallax and magnification. The closer you were, the more different the viewed vs. captured image was.

I loved RF cameras, since the viewfinder-nose jam ratio was better than a SLR's (viewfinder being nearer the middle). That said, the IQ and focusing (MF) difference on SLR (often changeable) focusing screens drove IQ much higher (except vibration from mirrors).

Digitization allows the EVF to capture what the sensor (proxy for image) sees, with several distinctions: Focusing is predominantly AF for many users, so the EVF is more like a rifle scope than a fine tuning focusing tool, which DSLRs provide with screens/ prisms and MF override. My aged eyes cannot interpret lower than imaging sensor MF quality with a lower resolution EVF (LCD finder of lower res than imaging capture). With a decent focusing screen in an SLR/DSLR, I can fine tune a shot (AF or MF), calibrate lenses, look at DOF myself, and I believe have better IQ control than EVF.

That said, for snapshots, walking around with a known range lens, and feeling more intuned with my camera, an EVF is far superior to me than staring at a 1.5 x 2 inch LCD on the back of a digital compact. I bought an accessory EVF for a Lumix LX5, best move I've made. EVF seemed a bit of a luxury when I bought the LX-5, but turned out to be a GREAT spend.

On the discussion thread on Pentax "needing a MILC line" for "share" or long term viability, there are two decent sides to the argument. What I believe is that the day that Pentax fails to continue on a DSLR path and does a "SONY" and making more investment in MILC than pro-grade optics and DSLRs, I'll find a new supplier for DSLR equipment.

My first Pentax was a K2DMD. I used Olympus OM1-2, Nikon F to F3, and Contax RTS for work as well. I stick with Pentax for the glass, for now... 40 years later...
03-10-2017, 12:40 PM   #59
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2011
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,929
QuoteOriginally posted by GlassJunkie Quote
I loved RF cameras, since the viewfinder-nose jam ratio was better than a SLR's (viewfinder being nearer the middle). That said, the IQ and focusing (MF) difference on SLR (often changeable) focusing screens drove IQ much higher (except vibration from mirrors).
Leica users might beg to differ,
at least with focal lengths like 35mm, 50mm, 90mm,
and subject distances that weren't too close.

Focusing a 35mm lens with the rangefinder on a Leica
was much easier than focusing a wide-angle lens on an SLR.

Fast-forward to the twenty-first century:
I'm finding live-view CDAF of wide-angle lenses
is much more accurate than PDAF with an optical finder.
03-10-2017, 12:42 PM   #60
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
UncleVanya's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 13,589
Magnified live view and focus peaking are both more accurate than a dslr focusing screen unless you have a split screen replacement perfectly calibrated.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
aperture, aps-c, aps-c sensor, camera, camera with aps-c, cameras, canon, course, evf, film, format, hip, june, k-01, lenses, light, m-e mirrorless camera, mirrorless, paper, pentax, pentax m-e mirrorless, pentax news, pentax rumors, people, photography, sensor, system, threat
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mirrorless sales collapsing worse than -30% in Japan the homecountry of mirrorless beholder3 Photographic Industry and Professionals 21 04-05-2017 04:58 AM
Difference Between Full Frame (35mm) Sensor & Cropped (APS-C) Sensor richard balonglong Photographic Industry and Professionals 22 06-28-2012 02:20 AM
New K-01 mirrorless camera coming Mister Horrible Pentax News and Rumors 2067 02-21-2012 09:09 PM
Ricoh mirrorless APS-C camera in K mount this year? emr Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 18 11-09-2009 05:50 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:27 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top