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04-12-2017, 07:13 AM   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Seems like Ricoh beats out United many times over in the communications department
Very low bar.

That's like me saying "I kicked those 2nd grader's butts in a backyard game of football all by myself"

04-12-2017, 07:15 AM   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by Erictator Quote
Heh, almost read my mind... I was planning on watching the classifieds closely for fire sales by those panic'ed enough to jump ship because of a bit of poorly stated and badly translated news.
Eric
Norm, The 15-30 is very well executed, performs well, and will provide extra ballast in our kayaks.... Very happy with it. Some are floating around the secondary market for ~1000usd

Last edited by GlassJunkie; 04-12-2017 at 07:35 AM.
04-12-2017, 07:18 AM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
A little bit of wrong and false news, and the world collapses for some people..haha!

Ricoh/Pentax are here to stay! I just renewed my contract with them..And its a LONG term one
Off topic but I am just curious as to what you do/mean so that you 'get a contract'? Nothing meant by it. Just curious.
04-12-2017, 07:19 AM - 3 Likes   #184
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Folks... My colleague Mark politely asked everyone not to be personal in remarks here. There are several posts (at least one since Mark's request) that personally reference one of our long-standing members in a derogatory manner. Please - let's be classy and not stoop to this sort of behaviour (which, by the way, is against our forum rules).

Any further examples and I'll have to close the thread and issue infractions, both of which I'd rather not do.

Thanks in advance


04-12-2017, 07:26 AM   #185
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Camera industry is slow and protective. The old way of doing business is no longer working in this age. They need to:

- Open the software part to let people create apps that run on them. Magic lantern probably help Canon sold many more cameras.
- Connectivity to smartphone is slow and apps is terrible, need to integrate with smartphone more.
- More powerful in-camera editing/presets/apps that beat or equal with smartphone app in ease of use, and look better.
- Unified lens mount, which can be achieve with mirrorless camera and adapter.
- Better after sale services, like offering free online courses on editing photos, how to use flash, etc, create an eco-system.

IMO, Ricoh/Pentax unique products are: 645z, Theta 360, GR. continue to improve them. [Come on, at least make Theta and GR WR or waterproof.]

In digital age, not sure how products fades after they close door... I think it's not good?
I start shooting 120 and 135 film at a time where everyone think they are dead, but somehow film enjoy a reborn in recent years.
04-12-2017, 07:41 AM - 1 Like   #186
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QuoteOriginally posted by GlassJunkie Quote
Norm, The 15-30 is very well executed, performs well, and will provide extra ballast in our kayaks.... Very happy with it. Some are floating around the secondary market for ~100usd
I got some parking lot time (waiting for the Pine Martens to come) with a guy who owns one, and he raved about it for like 15 minutes. (It's amazing how 15 minutes in a parking lot with some guy makes a deeper impression than a hundred internet posts.)
This guy proudly showing off his DFA 150-450.


...but I have trouble finding room for my Sigma 8-16 and it is 555 grams. The 15-30 is 1040, almost twice the weight. On portages I usually carry my camera pack with my canoe and come back for the other packs with tents clothing and food in them. So without the camera gear I'm already carrying close 50- 70 pounds before camera gear i added in. And I've seen comparison images between my Sigma 8-16 on the K-3 and my client's D800 and 14-30, so I'm well aware of how much difference it can make. To me, it's not worth an extra pound. Especially given that during one amazing sunset with a demonstration of canoe skill extraordinaire going on as a show for some summer campers out on the lake, he didn't have his 14-30 because he deemed it too heavy to carry (Translate, up to his point he'd lugged it all over the place and never used it.)

this one


He also missed out on this shot for the same reason...


Don't even start the "zoom with your feet" nonsense. I'm at 8mm and there's lake with a pretty brutal current right behind me. I'm set up as far out into the lake as I can safely stand. The path up to this waterfall, is an uncleared rough boulder hopping, stream crossing nightmare for a guy where a pack with 15 pounds of camera gear. You have to get under things, you have to get over things, you have to squeeze through tight places. when people say "I can carry the extra weight", I usually just button my lip. That's not what it's about, and except for this once, I'm not even going to try and explain what it's about. It's not only the weight it's also your personal safety, and as a guide I'm responsible for that. A client taking my advice lightly, well, I will let you cause yourself as much pain as I think is good for you, but I won't let you risk life and limb, and on some of my bushwhacks too heavy a camera bag is just that. A risk to life and limb. And even with the pain thing, once I think you've suffered enough I step in a cover for your arrogance. I know it really sucks that I have to suffer a bit because of someone else's pig headed arrogance, but, that's the burden of being the expert. I took you in, and I promise to get you out, on time.

I have no use for people who want to be in the bush but expect soon else to do all the work for them to be there. Most guides these days don't. The old generation of guides who were essentially servants to rich people who wanted all the luxuries of home in the bush are long one. There's only a few of them left. I'm more like a coach who is going to help you work your ass off.

This guy was paying me about $200 a day to get him to these places, and he was missing images because his gear was too heavy to carry. So I knoweth of what I speak. It amazes me how cavalier people are about extra weight. The whole macho "extra weight doesn't bother me thing." That's exactly what this client said, when I said he was taking too much weight.This is just the internet and people can say what ever they want without consequences, out where I live, there's a price to be paid for not listening, and I won't be the one paying it. I'll be the one there trying really hard not to say "I told you so."

This guy brought his daughter and brother on a trip with me the next year. At one point there was a discussion about whether to camp in a crappy spot, or move on another Km to a campsite that offered excellent photo opportunities. The guy's brother tried to force the group to stop, because everyone was dog tired. I was recommending moving on, his brother looks at him for an opinion. Without even looking up the guy said, "I'm doing what he says" pointing at me. In those situations it doesn't take long for a smart guy (this guy is the Chief Operating Officer of a major computer hardware company) to learn his lessons, because if you don't it costs you pain, not me, not anyone else, the guy who won't listen. Here the guys that don't listen con a lot of people into thinking they have a point and that they are some kind of camera guru's. It's an imaginary universe where posturing and antagonism are mistaken for knowledge, one i grow increasingly tired of.

I'll make your dinner, rent you a tent and sleeping bag etc. and cook your food, but I won't carry your gear. Well I guess I would, but I'd be looking to make $500 a day per person, and I'd hire help if there was more than 1, not $200. And the client wouldn't cover much ground, I'm only good for maybe 6 km of portages a day. If i do 4 portages instead of 2 that's 1.5 Km instead of 3. Many portages are 3 km long, so it really limits what you can do in a trip.

To my mind, I wouldn't get enough out of the K-1 and 15-30 as compared to images taken with the k-3 and Sigma 8-16 to justify carrying a lens as heavy as the 15-30. But I doubt there's another guy in the world who does what I do, so I'm not saying anyone else out there who should use me as an example. I'm just saying...

The problem is my K-3 and Sigma 8-16 gets the job done to my satisfaction, to the point, I'd rather use the K-1 in crop mode and the Sigma 8-16 than carry around another big huge 2 pound lens. I'm also taking the DA*200 instead of the 60-250 to cut another half pound in the future. True bush people are always looking for ways to cut weight. Cutting weight means a more pleasurable less painful experience. (And I don't care who you are, there's going to be pain.) This year there will not be a lens in my kit that weighs over 1.5 pounds or 750 grams, yet I'll be covering 8mm to 476mm K-3mm, or 12-750 K-1 millimetres, in about 4 pounds of gear.

So anyone who wants to bring a 15-30 on a tip along with the 24-70 70-200 and and 150 450, I won't step in and physically try and stop you. I'll tell you once. But you won't take them everywhere we go, and you are going to be seriously regretting you brought such heavy gear. I've seen it, with guys who told me what great shape they were in and how they din't mind carrying the extra weight. Been there, done that , seen it all before.

Posted just in case you thought this was one of those flippant internet opinions based on next to nothing.

It's nice we could have this little chat.

Last edited by normhead; 04-12-2017 at 11:06 AM.
04-12-2017, 07:47 AM - 1 Like   #187
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QuoteOriginally posted by Daikokuya Quote
I only quoted Nikkei news. Did you read it?
Actually, I did,

(1) Their lead statement was "Ricoh is shrinking its money-losing camera business".

(2) Their headline was "Ricoh may close shutter on personal camera business".

(3) Your subject title is "Ricoh to get out of camera business?"

Each step added negative misinformation and unnecessary gloom.
04-12-2017, 07:53 AM   #188
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
How about 3 or 4 bullet points? you don't have to translate the whole article, but something more than "It's not so bright." would be appreciated.
OK. Here is some translation only about camera business.

1. Regarding to money-losing camera business, Ricoh is going to cultivate corporate demand for its 360-degree-camera series Theta.

2. CEO Yamashita denied the immediate withdrawal from consumer camera business like Pentax.

3. He said Ricoh is going to narrow down camera models. Ricoh has started to consider whether Ricoh should truly do business for some non-core-business including camera. Ricoh is going to restructure in the next three years.

4. He recognizes the reorganization and restructuring of camera business as a suject to consider.

That's it.

By the way, your photos are great. I also like to shoot waterfalls.

04-12-2017, 07:59 AM   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by Daikokuya Quote
OK. Here is some translation only about camera business.

1. Regarding to money-losing camera business, Ricoh is going to cultivate corporate demand for its 360-degree-camera series Theta.

2. CEO Yamashita denied the immediate withdrawal from consumer camera business like Pentax.

3. He said Ricoh is going to narrow down camera models. Ricoh has started to consider whether Ricoh should truly do business for some non-core-business including camera. Ricoh is going to restructure in the next three years.

4. He recognizes the reorganization and restructuring of camera business as a suject to consider.

That's it.

By the way, your photos are great. I also like to shoot waterfalls.
The actual statement from Ricoh, while concerning, is significantly less negative than the Nikkei News rumor/gossip/click-bait article which you fell for; and certainly not how you interpreted and responded in your initial posts.

As the OP you have the ability to Edit the Thread Title to something less provocative (Edit | Advanced) in Post #1, which I recommend you consider doing.
04-12-2017, 07:59 AM   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I got some parking lot time (waiting for the Pine Martens to come) with a guy who owns one, and he raved about it for like 15 minutes. (It's amazing how 15 minutes in a parking lot with some guy makes a deeper impression than a hundred internet posts.)
This guy proudly showing off his DFA 150-450.


...but I have trouble finding room for my Sigma 8-16 and it is 555 grams. The 15-30 is 1040, almost twice the weight. On portages I usually carry my camera pack with my canoe and come back for the other packs with tents clothing and food in them. So without the camera gear I'm already carrying close 50- 70 pounds before camera gear i added in. And I've seen comparison images between my Sigma 8-16 on the K-3 and my client's D800 and 14-30, so I'm well aware of how much difference it can make. To me, it's not worth an extra pound. Especially given that during one amazing sunset with a demonstration of canoe skill extraordinaire going on as a show for some summer campers out on the lake, he didn't have his 14-30 because he deemed it too heavy to carry (Translate, up to his point he'd lugged it all over the place and never used it.)

this one


He also missed out on this shot for the same reason...


This guy was paying me about $200 a day to get him to these places, and he was missing images because his gear was too heavy to carry. So I knoweth of what I speak.

To my mind, I wouldn't get enough out of the K-1 and 15039 as compared to images taken with the k-3 and Sigma 8-16 to justify carrying a lens as heavy as the 15-30. But I doubt there's another guy in the world who does what I do, so I'm not saying anyone else out there who should use me as an example. I'm just saying...

The problem is my K-3 and Sigma 8-16 gets the job done to my satisfaction, to the point, I'd rather use the K-1 in crop mode and the Sigma 8-16 than carry around another big huge 2 pound lens.I'm also taking the DA*200 instead of the 60-250 to cut another half pound in the future.
On my three day back country hike in Norm's territory (Algonquin park) last year, I only took a K3, a 18-135 and the 55-300 WR. It was partially decided because I had no more room in my pack for more lenses, but by the third day I was super happy to have not brought more gear!
04-12-2017, 08:27 AM - 3 Likes   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by GlassJunkie Quote
I know that most will yawn or throw shoes at their monitors over my post, but having worked in Japan for years, I have a certain take on the Initial release the clarification releases, and Ricoh Pentax' behavior over the past 3 years. THis is how I read the tea leaves on this round of news/fake news.

Predictions: The K mount DFA Lenses will come and will be higher on the quality spectrum than anything that we saw under HOYA. Remember the CEO's comments 2 years ago about reducing bottom end cameras AND entering/expanding the upper end of the DSLR market to the professional tool level. (since: 645Z, 645Z to 100mp coming, K-1, KP (makes total sense now), K3-xxx imminent. Flashes changing, high end glass coming.

Pentax is going to be positioned increasingly in Japan, like Leica is in its space. They (RP) are simply doing what they said they will do.

WG is dead, Ricoh branded compacts are dead, WG-M2 is likely dead unless they can pass Hero 5 specs with only one iteration (and keep ruggedization) and successfully position as a "professional's model. Theta will grow, and already could provide game changing automotive and military technology component platforms. Possible police body-cams also, with wider FOV.

Pentax will (even with alliances like Tamron), produce better glass than the market mean, sigma remains unimportant. Ever see a Siggy on a Leica?

Watch for continued cooperation with Cactus, METZ, Arca plate manufacturers, Fotodiox, Battery grip sub-cmponent makers) wildlife photo accessory firms. Another of the CEO's several years ago comments (verified by R&D) was a push to be the best choice for outdoor/ wildlife DSLRs.

MILC (unless APSc far better than 16mp) with an EVF, is not likely. FF more unlikely.

I still believe a bigger deal is to be had with RP investing in LEICA. Leica has all of the HVA characteristics that RP needs/wants, Panasonic has no mainstream DSLR (other than M43) play, and no interest in building one. M 4/3 has commodized the cheap sensor (sub APSc/FF) space.

Also I repeat the dirty little secret that SONY rarely discussed, but has underscored by it's actions... It makes cameras as advocacy products for sensor market demonstration. Their per-unit losses on photographic platforms are large.

Man is this fun. RP is just getting started.....IMHO
Please give this man a job at Ricoh, for he has the most common sensed evaluation I have read here in this thread..
04-12-2017, 08:35 AM - 1 Like   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The actual statement from Ricoh, while concerning, is significantly less negative than the Nikkei News rumor/gossip/click-bait article which you fell for; and certainly not how you interpreted and responded in your initial posts.

As the OP you have the ability to Edit the Thread Title to something less provocative (Edit | Advanced) in Post #1, which I recommend you consider doing.
I don't imagine anyone likes the news and it certainly doesn't seem very likely the worst would happen, but starting to alter things retrospectively doesn't strike me as a very good idea. What happened is what happened. There was/is a story about Ricoh generally and Nikkei broke it in a pretty standard-issue fashion. When set against a just-announced major write-down of assets attributed to cameras, news that the biz is under review isn't clickbait. Like them or not, and I expect many don't like them at all, Nikkei did their job.

Ricoh have issued clarification for sure but probably it took an article like that to winkle it out of them, and the clarification doesn't in fact deny the general thrust of the article - changes and restructuring are on the cards. Again, standard issue journalism with all its foibles but a story did emerge. Very messy carry-on all round but isn't that usually the way? What does anyone expect? How this plays out will emerge over the next 6-12 months or longer. No one is going to have the faintest idea in just 24 hours.

Last edited by mecrox; 04-12-2017 at 08:46 AM.
04-12-2017, 08:39 AM   #193
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
So a story comes out about Ricoh scaling back consumer cameras and Pentax is Dooomed™.

What exactly are they going to do but get rid of money losers like the GR, WG and Q?
Hopefully, they will slash the Ricoh line and leave Pentax alone. That said, it wouldn't be the first time Ricoh killed the k-mount.
04-12-2017, 08:41 AM   #194
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But the Theta is doing very well, and the GR was successful too.
04-12-2017, 08:48 AM   #195
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I guess we all need to go out and buy new lenses to keep the brand going... I have my eye on the 16-85 WR, 77 limited, and 300mm DA*.

Let's get business booming again! PS. If your significant other doesn't kill you, report back on what you bought!
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