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04-12-2017, 08:49 AM   #196
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Looking at a possible future....

- Theta
- K-mount aps-c
- K-mount fullframe
- 645

That is still a lot to handle. As I wrote some time ago, Theta needs heavy investment, but has the most potential. That would mean less new products for the three other lines. Maybe just one body for all three and with KP, K-1 and 645Z there is no need for any new camera body this year. On lenses it is difficult. K-1 didn't make big sales and that makes it hard to make money on new lenses for fullframe. The aps-c lensline is nice and almost complete. No upgrades for 645 would make it difficult in a market where fujifilm is popping out new lenses for their offering.

New camera's for car-business would be total different from the consumer market. Made by the same people in like wise factory's (maybe if not in China), but directe at b2b users.

04-12-2017, 08:49 AM   #197
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Do you remember when Ed Photouniverse spoke out his mind about the Pentax DA price policy?
Well, it seemed that Ricoh was all ears, it worked out and prices lowered across the board, at least by Amazon listings.
Im wondering if this is a Ricoh red herring to gauge feedback..There arent many Pentax related forums around..
04-12-2017, 09:42 AM - 2 Likes   #198
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I'm having trouble keeping up with this thread in real time, but I'll try to comment on a couple of points that seem to get missed in the rush. The surprising part for me is that Ricoh's digital camera business was singled out after being boilerplate in the Other section for a long time. On the other hand, it is singled out to announce an accounting matter of revaluing fixed assets in camera manufacturing, which indicates that this is a change that has been in the works for a while. Now that there is a new CEO of the parent company and the parent company is in the difficult position of explaining why profit forecasts for the entire business are being reduced by a large amount, it is a good idea to announce already formulated plans to correct internal problems right away, so financial markets and sales markets have confidence that Ricoh will get its affairs in order.

QuoteOriginally posted by Jeff Lopez Quote
Im wondering if this is a Ricoh red herring to gauge feedback.
No, this is only a little sardine in a big school of fish, to go from from an operating profit of 102 billion yen in fiscal year 2016 on 2.2 trillion yen of sales to a forecast of 30 billion yen operating profit on 2 trillion yen of sales in fiscal year 2017 is a really big deal which can't be blamed solely on digital cameras. It isn't a coincidence that there is a new CEO for Ricoh. Better to let a little bad news sardine slip out of the net than to leave the impression that the fisherman doesn't realize his net is torn. Even better if the other fishermen have been losing bigger specimens of the same type of fish for some time now. I see no reason to believe Ricoh is going to stop fishing for digital camera business.
04-12-2017, 10:41 AM   #199
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I got some parking lot time (waiting for the Pine Martens to come) with a guy who owns one, and he raved about it for like 15 minutes. (It's amazing how 15 minutes in a parking lot with some guy makes a deeper impression than a hundred internet posts.)
This guy proudly showing off his DFA 150-450.


...but I have trouble finding room for my Sigma 8-16 and it is 555 grams. The 15-30 is 1040, almost twice the weight. On portages I usually carry my camera pack with my canoe and come back for the other packs with tents clothing and food in them. So without the camera gear I'm already carrying close 50- 70 pounds before camera gear i added in. And I've seen comparison images between my Sigma 8-16 on the K-3 and my client's D800 and 14-30, so I'm well aware of how much difference it can make. To me, it's not worth an extra pound. Especially given that during one amazing sunset with a demonstration of canoe skill extraordinaire going on as a show for some summer campers out on the lake, he didn't have his 14-30 because he deemed it too heavy to carry (Translate, up to his point he'd lugged it all over the place and never used it.)

this one


He also missed out on this shot for the same reason...


Don't even start the "zoom with your feet" nonsense. I'm at 8mm and there's lake with a pretty brutal current right behind me. I'm set up as far out into the lake as I can safely stand. The path up to this waterfall, is an uncleared rough boulder hopping, stream crossing nightmare for a guy where a pack with 15 pounds of camera gear. You have to get under things, you have to get over things, you have to squeeze through tight places. when people say "I can carry the extra weight", I usually just button my lip. That's not what it's about, and except for this once, I'm not even going to try and explain what it's about. It's not only the weight it's also your personal safety, and as a guide I'm responsible for that. A client taking my advice lightly, well, I will let you cause yourself as much pain as I think is good for you, but I won't let you risk life and limb, and on some of my bushwhacks too heavy a camera bag is just that. A risk to life and limb. And even with the pain thing, once I think you've suffered enough I step in a cover for your arrogance. I know it really sucks that I have to suffer a bit because of someone else's pig headed arrogance, but, that's the burden of being the expert. I took you in, and I promise to get you out, on time.

I have no use for people who want to be in the bush but expect soon else to do all the work for them to be there. Most guides these days don't. The old generation of guides who were essentially servants to rich people who wanted all the luxuries of home in the bush are long one. There's only a few of them left. I'm more like a coach who is going to help you work your ass off.

This guy was paying me about $200 a day to get him to these places, and he was missing images because his gear was too heavy to carry. So I knoweth of what I speak. It amazes me how cavalier people are about extra weight. The whole macho "extra weight doesn't bother me thing." That's exactly what this client said, when I said he was taking too much weight.This is just the internet and people can say what ever they want without consequences, out where I live, there's a price to be paid for not listening, and I won't be the one paying it. I'll be the one there trying really hard not to say "I told you so."

This guy bought his daughter and brother on trip with me the next year. At one point there was a discussion about whether to camp in a crappy spot, or move on another Km to a campsite that offered excellent photo opportunities. The guy's brother tried to force the group to stop, because everyone was dog tired. I was recommending moving on, his brother looks at him for an opinion. Without even looking up the guy said, "I'm doing what he says" pointing at me. In those situations it doesn't take long for a smart guy (this guy is the Chief Operating Officer of a major computer hardware company) to learn his lessons, because if you don't it costs you pain, not me, not anyone else, the guy who won't listen. Here the guys that don't listen con a lot of people into thinking they have a point and that they are some kind of camera guru's. It's an imaginary universe where posturing and antagonism are mistaken for knowledge, one i grow increasingly tired of.

I'll make your dinner, rent you a tent and sleeping bag etc. and cook your food, but I won't carry your gear. Well I guess I would, but I'd be looking to make $500 a day per person, and I'd hire help if there was more than 1, not $200. And the client wouldn't cover much ground, I'm only good for maybe 6 km of portages a day. If i do 4 portages instead of 2 that's 1.5 Km instead of 3. Many portages are 3 km long, so it really limits what you can do in a trip.

To my mind, I wouldn't get enough out of the K-1 and 15-30 as compared to images taken with the k-3 and Sigma 8-16 to justify carrying a lens as heavy as the 15-30. But I doubt there's another guy in the world who does what I do, so I'm not saying anyone else out there who should use me as an example. I'm just saying...

The problem is my K-3 and Sigma 8-16 gets the job done to my satisfaction, to the point, I'd rather use the K-1 in crop mode and the Sigma 8-16 than carry around another big huge 2 pound lens. I'm also taking the DA*200 instead of the 60-250 to cut another half pound in the future. True bush people are always looking for ways to cut weight. Cutting weight means a more pleasurable less painful experience. (And I don't care who you are, there's going to be pain.) This year there will not be a lens in my kit that weighs over 1.5 pounds or 750 grams, yet I'll be covering 8mm to 476mm K-3mm, or 12-750 K-1 millimetres, in about 4 pounds of gear.

So anyone who wants to bring a 15-30 on a tip along with the 24-70 70-200 and and 150 450, I won't step and stop you. But you won't take them everywhere we go, and you are going to be seriously regretting you brought such heavy gear. I've seen it, with guys who told me what great shape they were in and how they din't mind carrying the extra weight. Benn there, done that , seen it all before.

Posted just in case you thought this was one of those flippant internet opinions based on next to nothing.

It's nice we could have this little chat.
I'm with you. Before trading up the DA* glass, I weighed each one, looked at the ranges for each, what I usually have in the bag for what type of day/shoot, and backed into it. When I'm deep in the woods or Birdy perches, the 150-450 is always there, just too darn good for what I need. I strip out the widies and macros. One of the driving factors on the trade out of the 16-50 was the repairs. It was my go-to for general use, went everywhere, but 3 motors and 2 objective barrels later, it was just too pricey. I took the extra 450gm with a big ugh, but really wanted to keep an F2.8 in the range. My old Fave lens (which you and I have both waxed lyrically about in the past), the 60-250, well I just wanted the F2.8 from 70-200. If I'm not birding, the 3 lens solution (15-30. 24-70, 70-200 DFAs) and the HD1.4TC is enough for pretty much anything on a K-3 except BIFs and bug eyes. so net-net, I carry 500gm more in the bag. Similar to your 8-16 Siggy, Susan and I kept the 12-24 F4, plays well in bright and wide spots.

Sounds like some of your clients are also getting a free fitness tour (like the USMC 20 mile rock hikes)....

04-12-2017, 10:41 AM   #200
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Another thought is.. I wonder if Sigma (especially but also Tamron) were trying to get Pentax out of the market by pulling back lens offerings over the years?

Starving the brand .. of course that could be entirely not the case. But it does make me wonder as a result of their lack of support on the more common focal lengths and unwillingness to even consider amicable agreements on offering more K mount lenses.

I'm guessing Sigma would be more than happy to have Pentax go away.. one less lens mount to support (and die hard fans constantly requesting more K mount lenses).
sigma has already pretty much dropped pentax and has no real plans to include them moving forward. i spoke to them on a few occasions and they always said the same thing - sales are simply not there to justify it. if they sold enough to make money why wouldn't they? but pentax in general has fallen on hard times and i seldom if ever see them in the wild anymore.
04-12-2017, 10:50 AM   #201
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So... I updated my signature just because of this thread
04-12-2017, 11:00 AM   #202
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Sounds like a leaner and meaner Pentax as long as the have a full frame, APS-C model or two and 645 on the MF I have no problems. Nor do I with expensive glass 500-1000 USD is fine with me over 1,500 us out of my league. 1,000 - 1,500 camera bodies are OK with so long as they stay around. I sure glad I put my money where my mouth is.
04-12-2017, 11:01 AM   #203
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I dont think its Pentax sales fault that Ricoh is deciding to realign its business model. I know for a fact that Ricoh's most profitable business are their copiers, contracts are continuing income.
But major govermental and educational institutions that use Ricoh are contracting and well, it makes sense that Ricoh will try save money elsewere..lets see what happens

04-12-2017, 11:08 AM - 1 Like   #204
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blacknight659 Quote
I guess we all need to go out and buy new lenses to keep the brand going... I have my eye on the 16-85 WR, 77 limited, and 300mm DA*.

Let's get business booming again! PS. If your significant other doesn't kill you, report back on what you bought!
We all take life insurance polices out on each other, problem solved. Winners spend the pay offs on the life insurance polices on more Pentax gear. Almost every body wins.
04-12-2017, 11:13 AM   #205
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Looking at a possible future....

Theta needs heavy investment, but has the most potential.
Enjoy your posts. Disagree with the above. Theta has leapfrogged many panoramic others. Example, take the typical US police car with 4 scanning cameras for license plate "passive capture"... ~$20k. Take a theta, WR/Armor it, make it vehicle swappable (Magnet/suction cup), user downloadable in the rack (~$2k usd each), sell 10x more....
or....

Take a THETA cheapy, upgrade the housing and audio, Put one sensor on front of the tactical vest, take the other on the back, you have 360 panoramic on a constable... Price point $1000 each? My point is that the core guts of Theta are almost game changing, have vehicular and Police applications with more housing/ attachment costs than sensor/CPU, hence a ton of money to be made. Smaller R&D costs in the housing type R&D...
04-12-2017, 11:14 AM - 1 Like   #206
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
We all take life insurance polices out on each other, problem solved. Winners spend the pay offs on the life insurance polices on more Pentax gear. Almost every body wins.
She already read the tiny letters, and decided not to cosign😣
04-12-2017, 11:17 AM   #207
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
We all take life insurance polices out on each other, problem solved. Winners spend the pay offs on the life insurance polices on more Pentax gear. Almost every body wins.
I have to call my lawyer. I think I want to be buried with my MZ-s
04-12-2017, 11:32 AM   #208
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QuoteOriginally posted by GlassJunkie Quote
Enjoy your posts. Disagree with the above. Theta has leapfrogged many panoramic others. Example, take the typical US police car with 4 scanning cameras for license plate "passive capture"... ~$20k. Take a theta, WR/Armor it, make it vehicle swappable (Magnet/suction cup), user downloadable in the rack (~$2k usd each), sell 10x more....
or....

Take a THETA cheapy, upgrade the housing and audio, Put one sensor on front of the tactical vest, take the other on the back, you have 360 panoramic on a constable... Price point $1000 each? My point is that the core guts of Theta are almost game changing, have vehicular and Police applications with more housing/ attachment costs than sensor/CPU, hence a ton of money to be made. Smaller R&D costs in the housing type R&D...
http://uscommonsense.org/research/much-police-body-cameras-cost/

There is lots of market. Image quality is getting more important to use footage in a court of law.
04-12-2017, 11:33 AM   #209
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Nothing to see here.

This is just a re-affirmation of their existing strategy which is getting out of mass-market low-margin products (the compact camera lines are long gone, WG may be next, entry level DSLRs like k-500, K-S1 are gone for good)
Then focusing on higher-end high margin products, K-1 and KP, new high-end lenses.
K-70 class may be on the chopper, I don't know how much volume and profit it does. But the market is shrinking pretty quickly for enthusiast level DSLRs.

I'd rather be a niche player like Ricoh smartly exploiting a niche, using collaboration where necessary, than Nikon or Canon given market trends. Nikon will sooner or later have to abandon its 3000 and 5000 series cameras. Canon's DSLR lineup is ridiculously expansive. There are further huge adjustments coming.
04-12-2017, 11:35 AM   #210
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Seems like Ricoh beats out United many times over in the communications department
I bet Ricoh has never tried ti take back a camera from a customer either.
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