Ricoh to get out of camera business?

AtitG · 04-11-2017, 10:33 PM - **1 Like**

... ricoh withdrawing from the camera industry.

news next week: Tamron acquires Pentax brand.ü

biz-engineer · 04-11-2017, 10:34 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Racer X 69

I guess it isn't just aerospace that is hurting right now. Boeing is going through a layoff period at the moment. Tens of thousands of workers will be impacted. The company has been offering voluntary layoffs and early retirements for a couple years now. The first of March management notified the Machinist's Union that War (layoff) Notices were forthcoming.

Well, I've been working for US based companies and European. The management culture is different in the US, M&A and layoffs are parts of the management toolbox of the American manager, while traditionally, layoffs in European style management is considered as emergency action, that's also why hiring is so slow in Europe vs USA. In the US, people get layed off faster and also find a job faster. I don't know very well about Japanese management style, I assume it is conservative but maybe I'm just wrong.

**ffking** · 04-11-2017, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by ffking

The trouble is that without clarification about commitment to Pentax, nobody is going to invest in the system and it's goodbye Pentax anyway - they need to make that commitment publicly.

Thank goodness they still listen to me

Uluru · 04-11-2017, 10:56 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by Daikokuya

According to ITmedia, Japanese news source, Ricoh refuted Nikkei article, saying that "Ricoh is going to nail down product lineup and shift toward high value-added products, but not to abandon consumer business, Ricoh plans to grow high value-added products for consumers".

Yes, high-value-added products was their strategy, and the public testimony came out, IIRC, some 18 months ago. It was in the interviews, "We want to focus on high value products". Remember that? Their marketing manager told that, and their CEO held K1 mockup speaking those words too: "Hi-added-value products".

• For that reason they planned and made the K-1 and all subsequent products.
• The KP, K3II, K3III, etc.
• New DFA* prime lenses are designed as well as high-value-added stuff. Big lenses, premium quality. It works for Cosina and others.

In consequence, it may be that everything else apart from premium stuff for the K-mount goes through the window.
I think this strategy will bring more great and far better products which people want to have, and instead of wasting attention on too many pans, focus on one and make best pancakes ever. (pun intended)

Last edited by Uluru; 04-11-2017 at 11:54 PM.

Mistral75 · 04-11-2017, 10:58 PM

The biggest threat to Ricoh Imaging is included in these few words:

山下社長は４月１日に就任したばかり

Ricoh have a new #1 (Mr Yamashita) since April 1st.

**ffking** · 04-11-2017, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by mee

I've had a middle aged woman yell at me from her pickup truck as she tore off that I shouldn't be in the park taking photos... (apparently there were children on the playground equipment.. I was photographing flowers at macro distance, not even facing the playground).

Yes - I've had a similar experience - like you want to take furtive pictures of kids so you haul out your big DSLR rather than your phone - great logic!

Fcsnt54 · 04-11-2017, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by AtitG

... ricoh withdrawing from the camera industry.

news next week: Tamron acquires Pentax brand.ü

If that is the case we would see more lenses

pinholecam · 04-11-2017, 11:14 PM - **1 Like**

Good!

So the "Why I won't buy a XXX", "I won't buy a XXX until XXXX is out", "I'm waiting for closeout prices" will come to a grand finale.

I can't be too bothered myself.
Much before the K1, I got myself a used 5D Mk1 and used it for a bit over a year.
That camera was probably about 10yrs old already, but was certainly kicking fine.
I am sure my current K1 will last me 5-10yrs from now and probably a good 15yrs with a new spare body I will buy if all this news is true.

Add to that, I've used a Sony A7 for my MF Pentax lenses for a good 3+yrs now and still do use it regularly, shooting all sorts of genres.
I don't really find myself limited with the MF.
So the additional plan would be to fall back on a mirrorless FF to adapt the lenses.

All in, I'm looking at 15-20yrs of camera usage for my lenses (bodies come and go anyway).
In 15-20 yrs, cameras may not even exist in the form that they do now with the changes in technology (maybe a direct recording from eye to brain

).
So I'll think about that when the time comes.

RonHendriks1966 · 04-11-2017, 11:31 PM

Originally posted by mee

I thought those around here said they were profitable. This article says they're losing money.. which is it?

Only the quarter of the introduction of the K-1 was the quarter reporting that the camera business was contributing to profits. All other quarter in the last 3 years did not give that note. So they could loose money.

To be honest, this can't be a surprise when coming true. We will know on april 28th.

**newmikey** · 04-11-2017, 11:31 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by pinholecam

"I'm waiting for closeout prices" will come to a grand finale.

I can't be too bothered myself.

All in, I'm looking at 15-20yrs of camera usage for my lenses (bodies come and go anyway).
In 15-20 yrs, cameras may not even exist in the form that they do now with the changes in technology (maybe a direct recording from eye to brain

).
So I'll think about that when the time comes.

With you on that one. I feel the K-1 and the 645Z might have been the grand cause for all of this. A company which did a very decent job in APS-C had to invest huge resources in two production lines which most probably did not provide any positive ROI. I am aware that there are many who would have left Pentax/Ricoh without any FF in the lineup but that would have been repairable IMHO.

My current K-5 IIs is still doing absolutey smashing after some 4 years on the job and I have a solid glass collection from 8mm all the way through to 300mm. I was wanting to get the KP but I'll sit on my hands for now and see what the prices do after this announcement. The counter argument may be that such behavior with the public may accelerate the downfall of the company but I don't really care a lot about companies anyway.

My investment policy on photo equipment over the years has indeed paid off: I never bought new models, always one or two generations behind and mostly when a cashback was on for a short time. I never spent more than €700 on any body and was always able to recoup about half of that through the sale of the old body.

Even if Pentax were to wink out of existence overnight, not a single penny of my money was spent in vain over the last 10+ years and I have the feeling I've always tremendously enjoyed- and made the best of- the Pentax gear I acquired. Companies come and go and I have no special relation with the Japanese conglomerate called Ricoh so if they decide to end it right now, no bad feelings (no good ones either). They have a responsibility towards their shareholders, I get that.

rodorigo · 04-11-2017, 11:36 PM - **2 Likes**

According to ITmedia (http://www.itmedia.co.jp/news/articles/1704/12/news063.html, in Japanese) Ricoh has denied the report. Also Ricoh has stated that they will be narrowing down the product lineup, while further expanding high value-added models.

vZwicky · 04-11-2017, 11:47 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by pinholecam

...So the additional plan would be to fall back on a mirrorless FF to adapt the lenses...

This has been the plan for my existing glass if Pentax Doomageddon happens.

RonHendriks1966 · 04-11-2017, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by Mistral75

The biggest threat to Ricoh Imaging is included in these few words:

山下社長は４月１日に就任したばかり

Ricoh have a new #1 (Mr Yamashita) since April 1st.

Yes. The previous board had a history in Ricoh's camera business going back to the seventhies. New CEO will look at performance and that doesn't look so good.

Kunzite · 04-11-2017, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by Daikokuya

According to today's Nikkei, Japan's largest business newspaper, Ricoh is going to scale back camera business. It could get out of consumer camera business completely.

??????????????????????????????? (in Japanese)

Sad news...

Great. More FUD fodder

By the way:
Announcement of impairment losses, and revision to the forecast of consolidated operating results | Global | Ricoh

obsolescence · 04-12-2017, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by mee

I think so too.. and that is not a pessimistic view. Just an honest real life one. The market is in decline currently. They were 'last' on the market with a Full frame.

I think they'd do better to just license more 3rd party honestly! It would be quicker and (potentially) cheaper than going through R&D on their own. Maybe keep the 50 and the 85 as Pentax * designs.. but the 35 and the ultrawide are not.

I'd be OK with the Tamron SP 70-300 optics coming over our way too. That seems to be a decent walk around telephoto zoom.

That gets them on track with a lot more obvious holes in the lineup filled.. and 'fast.'

I have no idea what it costs to license a lens design though... so this thought could be entirely faulty.

Maybe a contract with Sigma, investing in tooling for Sigma's existing and upcoming lenses to be built for K mount?

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04-11-2017, 10:33 PM - 1 Like	#106
AtitG Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 269	... ricoh withdrawing from the camera industry. news next week: Tamron acquires Pentax brand.ü

04-11-2017, 10:34 PM - 1 Like	#107
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	Originally posted by Racer X 69 I guess it isn't just aerospace that is hurting right now. Boeing is going through a layoff period at the moment. Tens of thousands of workers will be impacted. The company has been offering voluntary layoffs and early retirements for a couple years now. The first of March management notified the Machinist's Union that War (layoff) Notices were forthcoming. Well, I've been working for US based companies and European. The management culture is different in the US, M&A and layoffs are parts of the management toolbox of the American manager, while traditionally, layoffs in European style management is considered as emergency action, that's also why hiring is so slow in Europe vs USA. In the US, people get layed off faster and also find a job faster. I don't know very well about Japanese management style, I assume it is conservative but maybe I'm just wrong.

04-11-2017, 10:55 PM	#108
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	Originally posted by ffking The trouble is that without clarification about commitment to Pentax, nobody is going to invest in the system and it's goodbye Pentax anyway - they need to make that commitment publicly. Thank goodness they still listen to me

04-11-2017, 10:56 PM - 3 Likes	#109
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Originally posted by Daikokuya According to ITmedia, Japanese news source, Ricoh refuted Nikkei article, saying that "Ricoh is going to nail down product lineup and shift toward high value-added products, but not to abandon consumer business, Ricoh plans to grow high value-added products for consumers". Yes, high-value-added products was their strategy, and the public testimony came out, IIRC, some 18 months ago. It was in the interviews, "We want to focus on high value products". Remember that? Their marketing manager told that, and their CEO held K1 mockup speaking those words too: "Hi-added-value products". • For that reason they planned and made the K-1 and all subsequent products. • The KP, K3II, K3III, etc. • New DFA* prime lenses are designed as well as high-value-added stuff. Big lenses, premium quality. It works for Cosina and others. In consequence, it may be that everything else apart from premium stuff for the K-mount goes through the window. I think this strategy will bring more great and far better products which people want to have, and instead of wasting attention on too many pans, focus on one and make best pancakes ever. (pun intended) Last edited by Uluru; 04-11-2017 at 11:54 PM.

04-11-2017, 10:58 PM	#110
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	The biggest threat to Ricoh Imaging is included in these few words: 山下社長は４月１日に就任したばかり Ricoh have a new #1 (Mr Yamashita) since April 1st.

04-11-2017, 11:02 PM	#111
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,038	Originally posted by mee I've had a middle aged woman yell at me from her pickup truck as she tore off that I shouldn't be in the park taking photos... (apparently there were children on the playground equipment.. I was photographing flowers at macro distance, not even facing the playground). Yes - I've had a similar experience - like you want to take furtive pictures of kids so you haul out your big DSLR rather than your phone - great logic!

04-11-2017, 11:02 PM	#112
Fcsnt54 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: California Posts: 621	Originally posted by AtitG ... ricoh withdrawing from the camera industry. news next week: Tamron acquires Pentax brand.ü If that is the case we would see more lenses

04-11-2017, 11:14 PM - 1 Like	#113
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,706	Good! So the "Why I won't buy a XXX", "I won't buy a XXX until XXXX is out", "I'm waiting for closeout prices" will come to a grand finale. I can't be too bothered myself. Much before the K1, I got myself a used 5D Mk1 and used it for a bit over a year. That camera was probably about 10yrs old already, but was certainly kicking fine. I am sure my current K1 will last me 5-10yrs from now and probably a good 15yrs with a new spare body I will buy if all this news is true. Add to that, I've used a Sony A7 for my MF Pentax lenses for a good 3+yrs now and still do use it regularly, shooting all sorts of genres. I don't really find myself limited with the MF. So the additional plan would be to fall back on a mirrorless FF to adapt the lenses. All in, I'm looking at 15-20yrs of camera usage for my lenses (bodies come and go anyway). In 15-20 yrs, cameras may not even exist in the form that they do now with the changes in technology (maybe a direct recording from eye to brain ). So I'll think about that when the time comes.

04-11-2017, 11:31 PM	#114
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by mee I thought those around here said they were profitable. This article says they're losing money.. which is it? Only the quarter of the introduction of the K-1 was the quarter reporting that the camera business was contributing to profits. All other quarter in the last 3 years did not give that note. So they could loose money. To be honest, this can't be a surprise when coming true. We will know on april 28th.

04-11-2017, 11:31 PM - 1 Like	#115
newmikey Site Supporter Join Date: May 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,287	Originally posted by pinholecam "I'm waiting for closeout prices" will come to a grand finale. I can't be too bothered myself. All in, I'm looking at 15-20yrs of camera usage for my lenses (bodies come and go anyway). In 15-20 yrs, cameras may not even exist in the form that they do now with the changes in technology (maybe a direct recording from eye to brain ). So I'll think about that when the time comes. With you on that one. I feel the K-1 and the 645Z might have been the grand cause for all of this. A company which did a very decent job in APS-C had to invest huge resources in two production lines which most probably did not provide any positive ROI. I am aware that there are many who would have left Pentax/Ricoh without any FF in the lineup but that would have been repairable IMHO. My current K-5 IIs is still doing absolutey smashing after some 4 years on the job and I have a solid glass collection from 8mm all the way through to 300mm. I was wanting to get the KP but I'll sit on my hands for now and see what the prices do after this announcement. The counter argument may be that such behavior with the public may accelerate the downfall of the company but I don't really care a lot about companies anyway. My investment policy on photo equipment over the years has indeed paid off: I never bought new models, always one or two generations behind and mostly when a cashback was on for a short time. I never spent more than €700 on any body and was always able to recoup about half of that through the sale of the old body. Even if Pentax were to wink out of existence overnight, not a single penny of my money was spent in vain over the last 10+ years and I have the feeling I've always tremendously enjoyed- and made the best of- the Pentax gear I acquired. Companies come and go and I have no special relation with the Japanese conglomerate called Ricoh so if they decide to end it right now, no bad feelings (no good ones either). They have a responsibility towards their shareholders, I get that.

04-11-2017, 11:36 PM - 2 Likes	#116
rodorigo New Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 1	According to ITmedia (http://www.itmedia.co.jp/news/articles/1704/12/news063.html, in Japanese) Ricoh has denied the report. Also Ricoh has stated that they will be narrowing down the product lineup, while further expanding high value-added models.

04-11-2017, 11:47 PM - 1 Like	#117
vZwicky Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Chatawa, MS Photos: Gallery Posts: 171	Originally posted by pinholecam ...So the additional plan would be to fall back on a mirrorless FF to adapt the lenses... This has been the plan for my existing glass if Pentax Doomageddon happens.

04-11-2017, 11:50 PM	#118
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Mistral75 The biggest threat to Ricoh Imaging is included in these few words: 山下社長は４月１日に就任したばかり Ricoh have a new #1 (Mr Yamashita) since April 1st. Yes. The previous board had a history in Ricoh's camera business going back to the seventhies. New CEO will look at performance and that doesn't look so good.

04-11-2017, 11:58 PM	#119
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Daikokuya According to today's Nikkei, Japan's largest business newspaper, Ricoh is going to scale back camera business. It could get out of consumer camera business completely. ??????????????????????????????? (in Japanese) Sad news... Great. More FUD fodder By the way: Announcement of impairment losses, and revision to the forecast of consolidated operating results \| Global \| Ricoh

04-12-2017, 12:00 AM	#120
obsolescence Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 25	Originally posted by mee I think so too.. and that is not a pessimistic view. Just an honest real life one. The market is in decline currently. They were 'last' on the market with a Full frame. I think they'd do better to just license more 3rd party honestly! It would be quicker and (potentially) cheaper than going through R&D on their own. Maybe keep the 50 and the 85 as Pentax * designs.. but the 35 and the ultrawide are not. I'd be OK with the Tamron SP 70-300 optics coming over our way too. That seems to be a decent walk around telephoto zoom. That gets them on track with a lot more obvious holes in the lineup filled.. and 'fast.' I have no idea what it costs to license a lens design though... so this thought could be entirely faulty. Maybe a contract with Sigma, investing in tooling for Sigma's existing and upcoming lenses to be built for K mount?