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04-21-2017, 05:32 PM   #151
mee
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Pentax operates in a wholly different layer of imaging industry, and that layer is created by tectonic shifts in other layers. There is always something moving towards the Pentax layer, and we may assume what that may be. My guess is, people who move in Pentax layer are annoyed with the sameness of trends and their drumbeat insane pace, and they want different features altogether. They are after something else. Perhaps they don't know what that else could be, but when they find Pentax, they get it. They understand it then.
I don't think that is it.

I also don't think it is any one thing.. people's decisions are like them.. quite different.

My choice in Pentax stemmed from researching online Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Pentax 7 years ago.. at the time the K-x offered me more bang for the buck as a still image shooter. Video wasn't big on my list even though I wanted video recording.

Today, I'd probably go with Canon Nikon or Sony if I was doing the same research with the same level of experience. The one aspect that Pentax really has going for it (ergonomics and feel in hand) is the one aspect that is not taken advantage of since Pentax has little to no retail presence.

I can go to a department store and find Nikon and Canon. Big electronics stores and find them and Sony (also some Fuji Panasonic and Olympus). I don't find Pentax.

I let a local Canon-shooting friend hold my Pentax camera once and the first response was amazement at how good it felt to hold (compared to what he was used to -- Canon). Oh and he only picked up Canon because he got a heavy discount on the body he ended up getting (a 60D iirc) at the time at a Target (department store in the USA). Otherwise he would have gone Pentax too.. (as he was the one that directed me to look at Pentax; I didn't even know they existed at the time -- didn't see them in the stores).

But that is an aside.. because there is no one reason anyone buys Pentax. For some it is the IQ out of the stills, for others bang for buck (value), and yet others probably enjoy the weather sealing most... and probably half a dozen more reasons.


Last edited by mee; 04-21-2017 at 05:58 PM.
04-21-2017, 05:41 PM   #152
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I don't think that is it.

I also don't think it is any one thing.. people's decisions are like them.. quite different.
My choice in Pentax stemmed from researching online Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Pentax 7 years ago.. at the time the K-x offered me more bang for the buck as a still image shooter. ...
Maybe such users are bargain tech hunters; get as much tech for as little money as possible, try as much tech as possible, because of the tech itself. Tech is marketed as higher and higher specs in FPS, AF, 4K, MP, etc. So they want to move up, while others, who are used to all that and see no more attractiveness in it, go down, and enjoy balanced simplicity.
So that is what I wanted to state above.
04-21-2017, 05:52 PM   #153
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I've never been much of a video photographer. Still have my dad's old Sony video camera, but never been much into video. Used it when our kids were young.

For me, it's all about still photography...always has been and at my stage in life always will be in all likelihood. I'm interested in composition, lighting (use my Sekonic L-398 Deluxe Studio Master meter), etc., but that's me. My photographic interests flow perfectly with the abilities of the Pentax K-1, which I have and I find it's a really great still camera.

Just found my old Minolta Table Top tripod that I bought over three decades ago and I'm amazed how steady the K-1 mit battery grip and extra battery is on this old Leitz Table Top small tripod copy. Will be perfect for low available light, still photography. However I've digressed.

Just to add, many of the Canikon photographers (DSLR) I know, seem to primarily use their cameras for still photography, very occasionally using their video feature for birthday parties, Xmas, children and grandchildren. They're not pros...just rabid enthusiasts, like me. Remember the average photo enthusiast (ones I know anyways) are not trying to enter the Indy film arena with dreams of competing with 20th Century Fox.

The average photo buff in my experience seems to focus on still. But that's just me.
04-21-2017, 09:19 PM - 4 Likes   #154
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I think Pentax is wise to put a low priority on video, and this article by dedicated videographers explains why: Nikon D5300 Review and why DSLRs are dead for video - EOSHD.

If you really want to do professional-level video, you're getting into an entirely new world and market. The technology and infrastructure leap required could, I think, be compared to the effort to produce the 645D or the K-1. Then, once you've got the camera out, you need a whole supporting cast from 3rd parties—software, cine lenses, focus aids, monitor/recorders, etc etc etc.

If you look at Sony and Canon, they are producing cameras that are either dedicated video cameras (EOS C series) or video cameras first, still cameras second. Based on what I've read, the still camera physical form factor just doesn't seem to lend itself to serious video production, thus requiring a whole new line of cameras with a completely different set of priorities.

In our world of severely constrained resources, can Ricoh pull off an end-run and produce a class-leading video camera system? Not just a single camera, but a system? We already wonder if they can support the still camera lineups they have (Theta, FF and APS-C K-mount, and 645, to say nothing of the late q-mount). Could they really keep these up and produce a video camera system worthy of people investing in?

I think it is wise, as many have said already, for Ricoh to decide they will excel at still photography and spend their money their. It seems the professional-level videography ship has sailed and without a massive, full-comapny pivot, Ricoh does not have the resources in place to catch up. Does this limit their market for those customers who want to do both on the same system? Absolutely. Are they in a position to change that? I don't think so.

Would updated video features for the casual videographer be great? Definitely. I'm just not convinced that it's the best place to spend their limited money on.

04-21-2017, 11:15 PM   #155
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QuoteOriginally posted by clawhammer Quote
I think Pentax is wise to put a low priority on video, and this article by dedicated videographers explains why: Nikon D5300 Review and why DSLRs are dead for video - EOSHD.

If you really want to do professional-level video, you're getting into an entirely new world and market. The technology and infrastructure leap required could, I think, be compared to the effort to produce the 645D or the K-1. Then, once you've got the camera out, you need a whole supporting cast from 3rd parties—software, cine lenses, focus aids, monitor/recorders, etc etc etc.

If you look at Sony and Canon, they are producing cameras that are either dedicated video cameras (EOS C series) or video cameras first, still cameras second. Based on what I've read, the still camera physical form factor just doesn't seem to lend itself to serious video production, thus requiring a whole new line of cameras with a completely different set of priorities.

In our world of severely constrained resources, can Ricoh pull off an end-run and produce a class-leading video camera system? Not just a single camera, but a system? We already wonder if they can support the still camera lineups they have (Theta, FF and APS-C K-mount, and 645, to say nothing of the late q-mount). Could they really keep these up and produce a video camera system worthy of people investing in?

I think it is wise, as many have said already, for Ricoh to decide they will excel at still photography and spend their money their. It seems the professional-level videography ship has sailed and without a massive, full-comapny pivot, Ricoh does not have the resources in place to catch up. Does this limit their market for those customers who want to do both on the same system? Absolutely. Are they in a position to change that? I don't think so.

Would updated video features for the casual videographer be great? Definitely. I'm just not convinced that it's the best place to spend their limited money on.
Well said. I don't think anybody is asking Ricoh to compete with professional video cameras or Dslrs that are used as such.
We just want better video. Forum member Filmamigo laid out a few pages back some specs that Ricoh could work on. I for one would like firmware induced improvements that would make video more usable at low cost to Ricoh such as focus peaking in video and sensor shift IS when an external mic is connected. I know Ricoh has publicly discussed sensor shift in video which is a good thing. I personally would like a better codec/compression or lossless video, but I realize that may be impossible given sensor limitations.
04-21-2017, 11:32 PM - 3 Likes   #156
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What Ricoh really should do, is to fire the entire executive staff and hire some 20 members from Pentax Forums. Then they would in an instant be the one market-leading imaging company not only on this planet but probably in the Milky Way. Why haven't they thought of that?

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04-22-2017, 08:26 PM - 1 Like   #157
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Back to basics

The quote that started this thread off read:

QuoteQuote:
The K-1 has been “unbelievably good” for the company, Eguchi says. What’s more encouraging for Ricoh is that half of the customers buying the camera aren’t Pentax loyalists but new customers, Eguchi notes.
This doesn't say that these new customers are former Canikon shooters, contrary to the title of the thread. These new customers might never have bought an SLR before. We just don't know, in the absence of more details.

My guess? There are probably a significant number of people out there that really want a full frame SLR, but haven't been able to stomach the cost of FF Canikon offerings. Along comes the Pentax K-1, in a blaze of positive reviews and an attractive sticker price. At last the price seems bearable, so the potential buyer flashes the plastic and takes delivery of a great new camera.

People seem to be really happy with their K-1s, so that's good news for them, and a win for Pentax. This satisfaction is likely to turn into repeat business from the same people, and recommendations to their friends. It bodes well for the long term growth of the brand.
04-23-2017, 03:07 AM - 2 Likes   #158
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I jumped on the Pentax wagon in Decembe getting a Pentax K-70.
My previous digital cameras have all been smaller pocket cameras, I also have an old Nikon film camera.
My initial plan was to go for either a Canon EOS750/60d or a Nikon d5600, searching the internet for reviews I stumbled over a couple of K-70 reviews. I knew that Pentax was a camera brand, otherwise I knew absolutely nothing.
But the features (astrotracer was one of them) and also the IQ made me go for the K-70. Next thing was to find a store in Denmark actually selling Pentax cameras, they can be counted on one hand.
I must say that I have not regretted purchasing th K-70 for one second, instead I enjoy the built of the camera, the features, the IQ - everything about it - also AF, being able to take a picture of an RC helicopter in flight makes me satisfied.
I do not shoot videos with it, that's easier with my iPhone. If I had bought the Canon or Nikon, it would have been the same. If I want to shoot videos, I'd buy a video camera instead of walking around with a huge camera.

The only thing messing with the joy of owning a Pentax cameras, is actually all the negativity and discussions about lack of what ever, ask yourself - does it really matter?
I'm more than satisfied.

04-23-2017, 03:21 AM   #159
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The K-1 has been a success. That's probably all that matters from Ricoh's standpoint. They certainly have not lost money on it. They have grown the brand some and in today's shrinking market, that's enough.

Do they have room for improvement in some features? Sure they do, but that's probably a good thing, as then maybe people will continue to buy future generations of cameras. I do hope that they improve the video features on their cameras, but that said, I don't believe video actually moves many SLR units. But once you have the feature you may as well make it the best you can.
04-23-2017, 04:58 AM   #160
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The K-1 has been a success. That's probably all that matters from Ricoh's standpoint. They certainly have not lost money on it. They have grown the brand some and in today's shrinking market, that's enough.
I think this is maybe not true...... the question is, did it meet Ricoh financial expectations? I would say.....probably not! (This does not make it a failure).
04-23-2017, 06:11 AM - 1 Like   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I think this is maybe not true...... the question is, did it meet Ricoh financial expectations? I would say.....probably not! (This does not make it a failure).
Meanings can always be lost in translations, but if we take "unbelievably good" as conveying an accurate meaning from the original Japanese, then I'd be inclined to disagree with you, Ron. Otherwise, we'd have to accept that their financial expectations were unbelievably optimistic, which would fly in the face of most serious forecasting of this type.

Given that Ricoh has stated that the K-1 was intended primarily for their existing users to upgrade with, it's hardly likely that they would have included a 1:1 existing/new uptake in their sales projections. So, unless the actual sales were dismally low, I think we can safely say that the K-1 sales at least met Ricoh's expectations.
04-23-2017, 06:48 AM - 1 Like   #162
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I think this is maybe not true...... the question is, did it meet Ricoh financial expectations? I would say.....probably not! (This does not make it a failure).
It is actually a failure; the K-1 was selling so bad they felt compelled to raise the prices
04-23-2017, 07:29 AM   #163
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I think this is maybe not true...... the question is, did it meet Ricoh financial expectations? I would say.....probably not! (This does not make it a failure).
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
It is actually a failure; the K-1 was selling so bad they felt compelled to raise the prices
I was slightly concerned by the somewhat lukewarm comment on the CP+ 2017 (pt 1) that "Current sales are as good as expected." - not exactly euphoric - but the recent (and previous ) price rises certainly give hope that they believe that sales are strong enough to bear this.
04-23-2017, 03:26 PM   #164
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I think this is maybe not true...... the question is, did it meet Ricoh financial expectations? I would say.....probably not! (This does not make it a failure).
That must be it. There must be at least two layers of superimposed caveats on every simple statement.
04-24-2017, 02:20 AM   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
That must be it. There must be at least two layers of superimposed caveats on every simple statement.
I'm learning and getting better at it. I did not reached the high level of some who can be just simply of an outer space level by saying "the future is bright" and leave it at that.
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