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04-25-2017, 03:35 PM   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
it is equally wrong to say that in most cases, their customers would primarily shoot video
True, But I never said that. I don't think that is true with most cameras, that a majority of canon users MAINLY use it for videography. So what?

04-25-2017, 05:50 PM   #182
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I never buy the NAV package on a car, even though I want the better rear view mirror. I have a phone app that does NAV better and the $3,000 for the NAV + mirror isn't worth it. I understand that's a minority opinion, but I don't miss it and I'll be very annoyed if it becomes standard equipment that I have to pay for when I buy a car.
04-25-2017, 08:53 PM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by Imp Quote
I never said that.
My bad. I must have read it too literally when you wrote:
QuoteOriginally posted by Imp Quote
In most cases, your customers are not primarily shooting video, because your cameras are not good at video!
Mr. Eguchi did not say that. But whatever - six days, thirteen pages, and a massive threadjacking later, nothing has changed. If you need Panasonic-level video, Pentax can't or won't or can't-and-won't provide it any time soon.
04-25-2017, 09:31 PM   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fries Quote
So to say it is obsolete is a bit harsh in my opinion...
Film cameras are obsolete but still in use....go down the TV shop...see if you can find the 1080p ones, YES there they are over in the corner hidden away.COMPARE the images to the latest 4K sets....chalk n cheese.

04-25-2017, 10:30 PM   #185
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Film cameras are obsolete but still in use....go down the TV shop...see if you can find the 1080p ones, YES there they are over in the corner hidden away.COMPARE the images to the latest 4K sets....chalk n cheese.
That's all good and dandy.. except how much television is broadcast in 4k (ATSC 3.0)? None in my area.. None in most areas still today.

And from the speed of progression to 1080p (ATSC 1.0), I suspect I won't see 4k for a couple more years OTA.. the point being adoption is slow so why should a non-video oriented camera company work swiftly to get 4k in their cameras?
04-25-2017, 10:52 PM   #186
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
That's all good and dandy.. except how much television is broadcast in 4k (ATSC 3.0)? None in my area.. None in most areas still today.

And from the speed of progression to 1080p (ATSC 1.0), I suspect I won't see 4k for a couple more years OTA.. the point being adoption is slow so why should a non-video oriented camera company work swiftly to get 4k in their cameras?
Streaming video is broadcast in 4k from Sky, Stan and Netflix - over-the-air I don't think is capable of it, at least not here and not yet at best. Personally, I couldn't care less about it. and I doubt that many people will be shooting 4k video for release through the major internet streaming services, but there'll be some non-professionals putting their ultra hi-res stuff up on services like Vimeo.

The thing is, manufacturers are now starting to talk about 8k video - so what do you aim for? Ricoh has 4k on the Theta now, which, like with smart phone cameras, may well be easier on small devices. I imagine that Pentax products will be playing catchup until the necessary hardware is priced to make it economic for a small player.
04-26-2017, 02:11 AM   #187
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
That's all good and dandy.. except how much television is broadcast in 4k
None in ORstralia but as Rob pointed out STREAMING is here and its not going away......so 4K sets are viable AND they cater for people who make videos with Canon..Nikon...Sony...Panasonic...Olympus ...Fuji....AND RICOH cameras!


Panasonic have indicated development has started on the GH6 and they are aiming for 8K(2020 in time for Olympics)....not sure how the human eyes going to resolve that?Mine certainly can tell the difference between chalk and cheese though.
04-26-2017, 02:34 AM - 1 Like   #188
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Film cameras are obsolete but still in use....go down the TV shop...see if you can find the 1080p ones, YES there they are over in the corner hidden away.COMPARE the images to the latest 4K sets....chalk n cheese.
I think TV Makers are trying to push whatever they make more money on. On the other hand, broadcasters are slower to respond due to the expense on their end of things. It took a long time after HD video became main stream before the networks switched to totally HD content.

Honestly, much is made of the difference between 4K and HD video quality, but what makes a show or video watchable/rewatchable has more to do with story and plot and characters than with the resolution of the video.

04-26-2017, 02:46 AM - 1 Like   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think TV Makers are trying to push whatever they make more money on
I suppose camera makers think the same way!....I also suppose any business has the same idea.




QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
what makes a show or video watchable/rewatchable has more to do with story and plot and characters than with the resolution of the video.
If ya wanta watch fictional stories.....some people only watch news, current affairs,documentaries(I'm one of them).
04-26-2017, 02:57 AM - 1 Like   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
I suppose camera makers think the same way!....I also suppose any business has the same idea.






If ya wanta watch fictional stories.....some people only watch news, current affairs,documentaries(I'm one of them).
Of course. Camera makers are struggling now because last generation cameras are good enough that people don't need to rush out to buy a new one with a few extra frames per second. From the TV manufacturers standpoint, bigger TVs, 3D TVs, and more resolution are their only options to sell people who have decent TVs already new ones.

Even with those things, it isn't the resolution that makes a news cast or documentary interesting.
04-26-2017, 03:15 AM   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
it isn't the resolution that makes a news cast or documentary interesting.
might not be to you,however....theres many phones making 4K footage as well as Canon/Nikon/sony/Panosonic/Olympus/Fuji and Ricoh camera which are doing it too....not sure they wanta view that at low resolution!
04-26-2017, 04:05 AM - 1 Like   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
Mr. Eguchi did not say that. But whatever - six days, thirteen pages, and a massive threadjacking later, nothing has changed. If you need Panasonic-level video, Pentax can't or won't or can't-and-won't provide it any time soon.
I'm sorry I don't spend all my time on PForums and didn't respond in a timely fashion. I don't NEED Panasonic-level video (although I'd certainly like it!) but I need something that's usable.
04-26-2017, 04:33 AM - 1 Like   #193
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There must come a point where a single frame from a video stream is a perfectly decent still image, which will revolutionise portraiture and action photography.

Maybe we're there already? Naturally a lot hangs on what "perfectly decent" means for you.
04-26-2017, 05:12 AM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by asw66 Quote
There must come a point where a single frame from a video stream is a perfectly decent still image, which will revolutionise portraiture and action photography.

Maybe we're there already? Naturally a lot hangs on what "perfectly decent" means for you.
The Sony A9 @ 20fps and the Olympus OM-D E-M1 ii @ 18fps are practically there today.
04-26-2017, 06:44 AM - 3 Likes   #195
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
The thing is, manufacturers are now starting to talk about 8k video - so what do you aim for? Ricoh has 4k on the Theta now, which, like with smart phone cameras, may well be easier on small devices. I imagine that Pentax products will be playing catchup until the necessary hardware is priced to make it economic for a small player.
I've been in broadcasting for over 40 years - much of it in TV. I can tell you this: While the TV set manufacturers will try to get consumers excited about 8K video, the truth is, it will be much more useful as a production tool and in movie cinemas. I have a 4K UHD set myself and it's great. But image quality isn't a dramatic leap over 1080p - not in the way HD was a leap over the standard-definition TV picture we all grew up with. 8K? On 42-to-70-inch screens? You need more real estate to see a significant difference.

In most cinemas today, a digital projection of a movie is in 4K. And it's fine. Perhaps 8K will be usefully better on screens that large. But I don't see a problem now. Now... in terms of film and TV production, it's a whole 'nother story. 8K will allow directors to crop scenes if they aren't pleased with the framing or composition. They'll be able to experiment with different approaches while actually shooting a scene only once - which keeps production costs down. 8K will be a major advancement in terms of production.

In terms of cameras that consumers can buy, perhaps 8K capability will eventually make it into most of them. But I suspect the only people really using it will be the people who buy cameras like the Panasonic GH5 today - independent filmmakers and the like. And they'll be using very expensive cini lenses on those camera bodies. Can you picture an average oerson trying to shoot, edit and store 8K home videos on their PC? Sure, it'll be possible. But 4K storage is difficult enough already for many. And how about the processing horsepower needed to render those projects. Again, it can be done. But the average schmo probably doesn't want or can't afford the computing tools needed.

Last edited by Biro; 04-26-2017 at 06:51 AM.
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