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05-02-2017, 10:13 PM   #256
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Well the interview I read around the launch date of the K1 STATED, that Ricoh had listened to the Pentax user base!....I wonder where else that user base hangs out?...I do see a few over on the Fuji Forum.
If you look at Ricoh financials, it is likely that Pentax sales are overwhelmingly in Japan.

They are the user base - ego might make some of us forum members think otherwise.

Having said that, the target for the K-1 was existing Pentax customers. The project had been bandied about and worked on for quite a while (part of the reason USB2 is part of its spec, rather than USB3). And on the K-1 propaganda website, there's a lovely story about a Pentaxian coming up to the Ricoh stand at a trade show who impressed the employees with his love and passion, and they determined to get the concept product through the remaining hurdles.

It's very touching, Surfar.

I don't doubt it actually happened, but the beancounters back in Tokyo would have had their own existing business case (probably along the lines of 'consumer cameras are dying, we need another premium product like the 645Z') that the anecdote conveniently supported.

Sentiment comes from customers, not executives.


Last edited by clackers; 05-02-2017 at 10:46 PM.
05-02-2017, 10:17 PM   #257
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Who are you quoting? because you made that up...ha ha, you are funny Or think that way.

---------- Post added 05-03-17 at 06:14 AM ----------



Why not?....I saw the humor.
Actually I'm not even trying to be funny. That difference is important. If the important is 4K with otherwise minimal efforts, it will IMO come pretty soon if they get their hands on proper sensor.

If the kind of things I listed (and I agree it was purposely detailed) are important than IMO, waiting is waisting time.

And it has nothing to do with what I think about video.
05-02-2017, 10:20 PM - 1 Like   #258
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Wedding and corporate photographers (at the least) have an existing need for high-standard video.
You would often use a second shooter, so no need to make the same camera or indeed the same person do two things, Rob. It would be like playing 18 holes of golf with just a five iron in the bag.

Corporates can go for Red or Sony camcorders - the real thing.
05-02-2017, 10:43 PM - 2 Likes   #259
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
I wonder how the K1 came about?
i remember the first interview PF did with Pentax executives at (I think) CP+. While trying to be polite, the executive seemed not to be certain of what Pentax Forums was all about.

When informed that PF had a nearly complete database of all Pentax lenses ever produced, he was clearly flabbergasted.

While the familiarity has likely imptoved somewhat over the years, I doubt PF's influence on Pentax development plans on a scale of 1 to 100 rates higher than 1 or 2.

For these reasons:

Firstly, Pentax's customer engagement model seems rooted in old-school, highly formal models. Where they do seek direct customer input, it is through surveys like the European lens survey. They were still compiling/analyzing results *months* after the survey was over! Ricoh America's experiment with a direct PF presence lasted just a few weeks. When John Carlson (executive with Pentax in USA in pre and Hoya years) began posting on PF, it turned into a virtual slugfest, with both sides landing some awesome blows, within just a few days.

Pentax corporate culture simply has no clue how to engage with their customers in unstructured, informal venues, and more importantly, how to gleen useful intel from same. I think they may be trying, but they have a long ways to go.

Secondly, the English language, North America based PF represents a very small slice of their market. All else being equal, PF will not be the first place Pentax looks for advice, and well may be near the last place.

I think Pentax *should* take the pulse of PF into account in their development strategy, but cultural and structural barriers severely limit this.

As to the K-1, the special K-1 site seems to imply the engineering team had pushed it for a long time and their persistence and ideas for innovation finally paid off. I suspect the timing was also coincident with FF sensor pricing finally dropping enough to make the decision makers happy - or at least agreeable.

05-02-2017, 10:47 PM - 1 Like   #260
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QuoteOriginally posted by cfraz Quote
, I doubt PF's influence on Pentax development plans on a scale of 1 to 100 rates higher than 1 or 2.
i'm betting there was some generous rounding used to arrive at that figure.
05-02-2017, 10:48 PM   #261
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
it is likely that Pentax sales are overwhelmingly in Japan.
Obviously they sell cameras there too....What % is USA?canada?europe? any idea.....OZ is a blip on the radar, we both know that!




QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
it will IMO come pretty soon

It was here last year in the action cam,its in the new Theta.....and maybe its a different sensor for DSLRs ?
05-02-2017, 10:54 PM   #262
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
i'm betting there was some generous rounding used to arrive at that figure.
You may be right. But I think PF's personal contact via trade show interviews over several years help push in that direction.
05-02-2017, 10:56 PM   #263
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So, they don't take any notice of PF?....I wouldn't be too sure about that.


ASHAIman and the Viking(he uses Pano for video) are here and observing(not always posting).....and sure its debatable IF they have any influence?


Neither are here for their pretty faces, customer feedback is vital for business and they observe and report.

05-02-2017, 11:13 PM - 1 Like   #264
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
So, they don't take any notice of PF?....I wouldn't be too sure about that..
Nup. We've been whining for years on other topics ... video, 20ish primes, no-frills retro manual camera, mirrorless, etc ... without them being taken up.

I'll be honest. If I were a marketing exec, I'd fire a junior who relied on the rabble in an internet forum instead of commissioning a formal poll or consulting selected experts. What next, legislative decisions according to Reddit?


QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
ASHAIman and the Viking(he uses Pano for video) are here and observing(not always posting).....and sure its debatable IF they have any influence?


Neither are here for their pretty faces, customer feedback is vital for business and they observe and report.
I never got the impression Asahiman was some kind of customer engagement officer. Do you know more? He seems more like a whistleblower. He's on DPR, too, of course.

Who's the Viking?
05-02-2017, 11:19 PM   #265
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I never got the impression Asahiman was some kind of customer engagement officer. Do you know more? He seems more like a whistleblower. He's on DPR, too, of course. Who's the Viking?
Clacka, I dunno what AshaiMan does, but he seems to be in the know.


The Viking is the Nordic Ambassador KENSPO.......I haven't seen a comment from either for a while, maybe they've been told to be a bit more tightlipped.
05-02-2017, 11:34 PM   #266
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Clacka, I dunno what AshaiMan does, but he seems to be in the know.


The Viking is the Nordic Ambassador KENSPO.......I haven't seen a comment from either for a while, maybe they've been told to be a bit more tightlipped.
Well, I can tell you.

He was never an employee, just a hired promoter for the K-3 in particular.

Ricoh let him go, and the local Nordic distributors (think of them as the Scandinavian equivalent of our CR Kennedy) put him on their payroll to do a similar thing.

Great photographer, with a lot of personality. He insists he won't lie because he's being paid, and I know this is a personal judgement, but I trust him.

As for this forum, I think his impression of PF may well be that we are part of the problem.

He wants to attract a younger generation of togs who don't care about backward compatibility, and old farts like us on this forum who are proud of the K-mount heritage (and let's face it, are invested in it to one degree or another) are seen as obstacles.
05-02-2017, 11:50 PM   #267
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
He wants to attract a younger generation of togs who don't care about backward compatibility, and old farts like us on this forum who are proud of the K-mount heritage (and let's face it, are invested in it to one degree or another) are seen as obstacles.
Ive noticed he wants to get younger people involved BUT doesn't every camera Co?....US veterans will pass along 4 sure. a pretty straight shooter from what ive observed( even though hes probably gota take the S off Y of the Prime(S)...but I hope not.

Last edited by surfar; 05-02-2017 at 11:56 PM.
05-03-2017, 04:44 AM - 1 Like   #268
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
They are amateurs asking for things that the pro don't use.
That's really condescending. What's wrong with asking for technology that will help better capture images (still or moving) that have personal value?
05-03-2017, 05:08 AM - 1 Like   #269
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Well the interview I read around the launch date of the K1 STATED, that Ricoh had listened to the Pentax user base!....I wonder where else that user base hangs out?...I do see a few over on the Fuji Forum.
IIRC the inter stated the spark causing Pentax to green light K-1 was a casual conversation with a Pentax user AFTER a German camera show attended by a Pentax exec.
05-03-2017, 05:47 AM - 2 Likes   #270
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They needed a story with a good beginning. But truth to be said, nothing s wrong with the K-mount, and engineers know that. It is the most diversified mount; we even had a mirrorless camera for it. Wait until you see next crop ace.

---------- Post added 05-03-2017 at 10:59 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
He wants to attract a younger generation of togs who don't care about backward compatibility, and old farts like us on this forum who are proud of the K-mount heritage (and let's face it, are invested in it to one degree or another) are seen as obstacles.
Then he has a problem, because backward compatibility in photography means solidity of purpose and design, which is proven over, and over again. It is like your eye; you don't pull it out because robotic eye allows you to see 5% of IR spectrum. If one changes the purpose, then the history is deemed a failure, and it cannot be a failure because then our current ideas are failure too. Half the industry killed their past, caught itself in a paradox of existence, so let them live with that.

K-mount, there is nothing wrong with it. Nothing is an obstacle in it. Only people have obstacles with thinking. K-01 had no mirror and had no FF. K-1 has an FF and has a mirror. KP has crop and mirror. K2 will have crop and will have mirror and not have mirror. Still, all the same mount.

Never, never compare one group's ability to think slowly and uniquely with another group's lack of identity and a trash can full of excuses.
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