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05-06-2017, 04:17 AM - 1 Like   #301
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
At the moment we are in the awkward cross-over period
I'm not sure that its awkward, its only awkward to the people that consider it so....


I have 4 different EVFs from 4 different brands....and 3 OVFs...all Pentax....they all work.....I couldn't care less about batteries, I just buy more if I have too.


Fuji have a hybrid in the XPRO 1/2, some like it and others dumped if for another Fuji with eVF only.It boils down to what you prefer...I can use both without a problem.

05-06-2017, 04:18 AM   #302
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The death of the DSLR will become reality only when nobody left would know what a good viewfinder looks like. When the people would not know what is 'reality', as they would only look at their smartphones
It would be a sadder story than the MILC fans realize.
05-06-2017, 05:05 AM   #303
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
I'm not sure that its awkward, its only awkward to the people that consider it so....


I have 4 different EVFs from 4 different brands....and 3 OVFs...all Pentax....they all work.....I couldn't care less about batteries, I just buy more if I have too.


Fuji have a hybrid in the XPRO 1/2, some like it and others dumped if for another Fuji with eVF only.It boils down to what you prefer...I can use both without a problem.
It's awkward because a) EVFs are not yet as good as they could be and more development is needed, and b) people become needlessly worked up about it. Time will resolve things.
05-06-2017, 05:43 AM   #304
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
I don't think there is any need for camera-makers to invest lots of money in hybrid or dual OVF/EVF systems. They know that time and demographics are on their side. Soon enough, the OVF or die crowd will become small enough and old enough for it not to matter. They can still be catered to by traditional DSLRs, at a price, for as long as they form a niche worth appealing to - but everything else will move over to modern all-electronic systems. No one will complain. They will have grown up with such systems and, anyway, they offer capabilities a DSLR cannot match.

At the moment we are in the awkward cross-over period, that's all.
MILC makers may be hoping that demographics will literally kill-off DSLRs but the DSLR makers see it differently. I don't think Pentax, Canon, Nikon, etc. are going to give up so easily. And have a hard time believing that sales of DSLRs to younger photographers are zero -- some young photographers will continue to look for OVF cameras just as some young photographers are going to film.

The bigger issue is that the required investment by Pentax/Canon/Nikon to add an EVF to their existing DSLRs is far far less than the required investment by these DSLR makers to create an entirely new line of compact MILC bodies and lenses. Why throw away decades of investment in body design and lens design for a new system when the existing system can be updated simply by adding an EVF?


Aside from the body weight (which does not seem to have hurt sales of behemoth Canon & Nikon bodies or grips on a great many bodies), there's nothing that a MILC body can do that a DSLR+EVF in MILC mode can't do.

05-06-2017, 05:44 AM   #305
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
It's awkward because a) EVFs are not yet as good as they could be and more development is needed, and b) people become needlessly worked up about it. Time will resolve things.
So long as OVF cameras are available - even if only as a niche product - time can march on all it wants, and good for the people who want EVF's. So far, anyway, I don't seem to need a histogram or enlarged view for focus in my Optical path to achieve good exposures (but I understand that I now routinely manipulate ISO with my eye to the viewfinder). I still judge the Exposure pretty well in my head and the K-1 viewfinder is large enough to manual focus w/o a split-image screen .
05-06-2017, 05:58 AM - 1 Like   #306
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
MILC makers may be hoping that demographics will literally kill-off DSLRs but the DSLR makers see it differently. I don't think Pentax, Canon, Nikon, etc. are going to give up so easily. And have a hard time believing that sales of DSLRs to younger photographers are zero -- some young photographers will continue to look for OVF cameras just as some young photographers are going to film.

The bigger issue is that the required investment by Pentax/Canon/Nikon to add an EVF to their existing DSLRs is far far less than the required investment by these DSLR makers to create an entirely new line of compact MILC bodies and lenses. Why throw away decades of investment in body design and lens design for a new system when the existing system can be updated simply by adding an EVF?


Aside from the body weight (which does not seem to have hurt sales of behemoth Canon & Nikon bodies or grips on a great many bodies), there's nothing that a MILC body can do that a DSLR+EVF in MILC mode can't do.
Not talking over 2-3 years but ten. By then chances are several camera-makers won't be around and that new things like computational photography will be throwing their weight around. Saying that today's formula is the way forward isn't a very sure guess, I mean how could anyone know, though of course people are welcome to try. Not interested in turning this into the usual DSLR vs MILC ding dong. Time will change it all completely. Personally I am all for it. I am not at all sure that the really exciting and creative stuff in photography these days is being produced by old crusties like us withi DSLRs from old school brands. 8" x 10" plate cameras may enjoy a comeback. Some superb work on those these days.

Last edited by mecrox; 05-06-2017 at 01:46 PM.
05-06-2017, 06:35 AM   #307
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Ten? It was supposedly 5, some 5 years back. 10 years from now, it could be 20.
05-06-2017, 08:18 AM   #308
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Wow, even the rumor mill is slow these days.

What does it say about a product when people won't even make stuff up out of thin air about your stuff.

Man, throw us a bone Ricoh! How about a new line of Pentax re-branded Optech straps for our heavy new FF & FF lens combo's?

(No, no gold plated K1's please! Just a reasonable spread pace of product release would be nice)

Seriously though, you would think a competent marketing team would dole out some "fluff" or accessory products & FW updates, etc. during the slow to market build times for coming product.

This will probably be taken as an anti-Ricoh PentaxisDoomed (tm) post, *sigh* but it's really not... just a frustrated user who wants to see the Pentax brand be more successful and stay relevant.

BTW... I noticed Fuji announced a pro-services team dedicated to support for their new GFX camera line for $499 yr... We had a rumor about that for the K1 & 645z that seemed to evaporate. That's a bit of a let down.

Fujifilm Professional Services: GFX | Digital Cameras | FUJIFILM USA

Back in the day, I shot Pentax 645 film for weddings, and had a Pentax 6x7 for fun, too heavy for weddings but awesome landscape tool. Pro support was a very important thing to elevate a brand and keep pro's around.

OK OK , done grousing... I'll go back under my rock now.

Eric

05-06-2017, 09:56 AM - 1 Like   #309
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Not talking over 2-3 years but ten. By then chances are several camera-makers won't be around and that new things like computational photography will be throwing their weight around. Saying that today's formula is the way forward isn't very convincing, though of course people are welcome to try. Not interested in turning this into the usual DSLR vs MILC ding dong. Time will change it all completely. Personally I am all for it. I am not at all sure that the really exciting and creative stuff in photography these days is being produced by septuagenarians and their DSLRs with old school brands. 8" x 10" plate cameras may enjoy a comeback. Some superb work on those these days.
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Ten? It was supposedly 5, some 5 years back. 10 years from now, it could be 20.
The first iPhone was released June, 2007. It isn't ten years old yet . . . . .
05-06-2017, 10:39 AM   #310
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
the required investment by Pentax/Canon/Nikon to add an EVF to their existing DSLRs is far far less than the required investment by these DSLR makers to create an entirely new line of compact MILC bodies and lenses.
I guess all brands know how to add an EVF, it's an high density LCD + some small optics. The streaming of the image already done on the back LCD in LV mode. Removing (the mirror and mirror box and controls) is easier than to add something. I agree with you, for DSLR makers, moving from DSLR to mirrorless is only a matter of investing in a new mount with the associated risk to have customers already owning legacy lenses to use this opportunity of having all their lenses obsolete to take the opportunity to switch to another brand.
05-06-2017, 11:30 AM   #311
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QuoteOriginally posted by Erictator Quote
Wow, even the rumor mill is slow these days.

What does it say about a product when people won't even make stuff up out of thin air about your stuff.

Man, throw us a bone Ricoh! How about a new line of Pentax re-branded Optech straps for our heavy new FF & FF lens combo's?
You can make up your own rumors, you know? If available information is no good for you and you need rumors, that is.

How many straps do you need?
Ricoh has the O-ST1401 and the O-ST1621 - latter bearing the K-1 inscription.
05-06-2017, 11:48 AM   #312
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I guess all brands know how to add an EVF, it's an high density LCD + some small optics. The streaming of the image already done on the back LCD in LV mode. Removing (the mirror and mirror box and controls) is easier than to add something. I agree with you, for DSLR makers, moving from DSLR to mirrorless is only a matter of investing in a new mount with the associated risk to have customers already owning legacy lenses to use this opportunity of having all their lenses obsolete to take the opportunity to switch to another brand.
Camera-makers are in the biz of selling gear. Starting and then growing a new mount, like the EOS M, is a way to sell lots of new equipment. I would not rely on the old DSLR brands to just sit there and keep iterating the same old same old. Sooner or later, they will want to start with a clean sheet if only to secure future production savings and appeal to a new generation of customers. Maybe not tomorrow but it will happen, I think.
05-06-2017, 12:14 PM - 3 Likes   #313
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Maybe not tomorrow but it will happen, I think.
Yes, I full agree with you. Also, it will take a lot of time for the morphology of human hands to adapt to the Sony type of camera layout , according to Darwin, photographers with large hands may not be able to survive Sony's revolution :-)
05-06-2017, 12:18 PM   #314
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You can make up your own rumors, you know? If available information is no good for you and you need rumors, that is.

How many straps do you need?
Ricoh has the O-ST1401 and the O-ST1621 - latter bearing the K-1 inscription.
Too true! Heh...

I looked up that part for the K1 strap, it looks like one of those suede jobs, nice enough, but that is still no OpTech... unless you have tried one of their reinforced neoprene stretchy jobs, you haven't lived and your shoulder might not ever forgive you.

Eric
05-06-2017, 12:24 PM   #315
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I have a Pentax neoprene strap, it makes a world of difference from the "default" one.
I would buy an O-ST1621, unfortunately, it's not available right now.
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