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05-06-2017, 01:04 PM   #316
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
I don't think there is any need for camera-makers to invest lots of money in hybrid or dual OVF/EVF systems. They know that time and demographics are on their side. Soon enough, the OVF or die crowd will become small enough and old enough for it not to matter. They can still be catered to by traditional DSLRs, at a price, for as long as they form a niche worth appealing to - but everything else will move over to modern all-electronic systems. No one will complain. They will have grown up with such systems and, anyway, they offer capabilities a DSLR cannot match.
You know what? You might well be right - but I think it's very sad if the OVF dies (is that a sign of age?) for this reason: with an OVF, the conversion of 3-D into 2-D and nature's dynamic range into a camera's dynamic range takes place in the brain of the photographer, not just the processor of the camera- giving it up is giving up another piece of the input the photographer has into the final image, thus greater homogenisation of results - good in cases where that's what is required, but that's only a sub-set of photography. It's like Australian wines - very drinkable and reliable, but all the character is regulated out of them (major export brands, anyway.)

05-06-2017, 01:07 PM   #317
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
It's like Australian wines - very drinkable and reliable, but all the character is regulated out of them (major export brands, anyway.)
Reds are world class, but ya gota cross the ditch(NZ) to get quality whites.
05-06-2017, 01:29 PM   #318
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
ya gota cross the ditch(NZ) to get quality whites
won't argue with that - I do like Aussie wines - and predictable quality has a lot to say for it - I just sometimes like a surprise
05-06-2017, 01:33 PM   #319
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
You know what? You might well be right - but I think it's very sad if the OVF dies (is that a sign of age?)
If you think about the percentage of photos composed and taken with an OVF, it already is practically dead or at least on life support. Pretty soon we'll get to the point where more LP records are sold than cameras with OVFs.

05-06-2017, 01:37 PM - 1 Like   #320
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
more LP records are sold

I didn't ever ditch my Vinyl for CDs, but I only use my film cameras as paperweights these days!
05-06-2017, 01:42 PM - 1 Like   #321
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
I didn't ever ditch my Vinyl for CDs, but I only use my film cameras as paperweights these days!
Did you know you can use a K1000 film camera as a record weight? Just set the tripod socket of your K1000 over your spindle and it holds your records down nice and flat for ultra quiet and wow & flutter free HiFi record playing.

Only problem is, you can only play the first couple of tracks on LP 33rpm records before your cartridge smacks into your camera and doesn't work at all on 45's.

You might try using the Pentax mirror lens, standing up on it's mount over the spindle too, and hey, you could prolly play the whole record!

See, now this is a Pentax related post again.

Carry on, intrepid Pentaxians!
Eric
05-06-2017, 01:52 PM   #322
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QuoteOriginally posted by Erictator Quote
Carry on,
Up the Khyber!
05-06-2017, 02:25 PM   #323
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Not talking over 2-3 years but ten. By then chances are several camera-makers won't be around and that new things like computational photography will be throwing their weight around. Saying that today's formula is the way forward isn't a very sure guess, I mean how could anyone know, though of course people are welcome to try. Not interested in turning this into the usual DSLR vs MILC ding dong. Time will change it all completely. Personally I am all for it. I am not at all sure that the really exciting and creative stuff in photography these days is being produced by old crusties like us withi DSLRs from old school brands. 8" x 10" plate cameras may enjoy a comeback. Some superb work on those these days.
Singing it doesn't make it true though.

05-06-2017, 02:33 PM - 1 Like   #324
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I guess all brands know how to add an EVF, it's an high density LCD + some small optics. The streaming of the image already done on the back LCD in LV mode. Removing (the mirror and mirror box and controls) is easier than to add something. I agree with you, for DSLR makers, moving from DSLR to mirrorless is only a matter of investing in a new mount with the associated risk to have customers already owning legacy lenses to use this opportunity of having all their lenses obsolete to take the opportunity to switch to another brand.
Yes. A new mount is a nothing

Of course there's the small matter of engineering a complete new line of lenses and manufacturing processes have from the ground up, acquiring the machinery to make them, sourcing the components, training your employees to assemble the robot-made modules and telling the world about your new product.

Easy Peasy. Nothing to it.
05-06-2017, 02:42 PM   #325
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Easy Peasy. Nothing to it.
Theres some brands that have done it in recent years......And some have succeeded.
05-06-2017, 02:49 PM   #326
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Theres some brands that have done it in recent years......And some have succeeded.
Fuji. They have cash flow to burn from Stax and no legacy. Sony. They have native sensors and manufacturing process engineering skill to burn - and (functionally) no legacy. Canon? Not proven yet.

Who else?
05-06-2017, 02:53 PM - 1 Like   #327
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Panasonic


Samsung, but when they realised that market penetration was so difficult they chose to hibernate.
05-06-2017, 02:55 PM   #328
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Panasonic
What's their legacy mount?

The issue is legacy brands are capital-bound. Ricoh wrote down 8B to account for the shutdown of P&E after the collapse of the compact camera. They can't/won't throw away the existing dSLR tools, patents and corporate engineering catalog and Ricoh won't give them $1B to start fresh. They all hope to smoothly depreciate legacy P&E while they invest in new technology. Sometimes change happens faster than they want.

If they could do it don't you think they would have by now? They tried with K-01 - first MILC ever to use a legacy mount - and Q - smallest MILC at the time - but the market demands thin, shiny ergonomic Frankencameras with a tiny television inside. Sony, Panny and Canon have that skill, too. Where's Ricoh going to buy it?

I think the entry-level dSLR is going the way of the compact, which might actually help Pentax. Canon and Nikon might have serious capital issues. Pentax can keep making small runs of eccentric, high-value cameras for a long time. Then they'll make small runs of eccentric MILC's in their spare time.

Last edited by monochrome; 05-06-2017 at 03:13 PM.
05-06-2017, 02:57 PM - 2 Likes   #329
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Singing it doesn't make it true though.
It's already true. It's already happened, as John Flores points out in an other post above. That's presumably the reason folks get so worked up about it. It happened while they were busy doing something else, to borrow a phrase. And now the world isn't going back. I can't think of any other reason for the heat the subject generates. Anyway, I'm not fussed. There are many kinds of photography and DSLR-based work is only one, and not even a dominant one. There is medium format, film of all kinds and old plate cameras too. Look at what the finalists of this year's Deutsche Borse prize are up to, particularly Awoiska van der Molen. Really, "which camera?" isn't the main question here. Why not just accept this is the way the world is going and make something interesting from it all.

Last edited by mecrox; 05-06-2017 at 03:03 PM.
05-06-2017, 03:08 PM   #330
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
What's their legacy mount?
Their current one.
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