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05-10-2017, 11:55 AM   #436
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I of course don't have permission to post or even to hotlink them, but I defy anyone to say her images aren't photographs and she isn't a photographer.
I guess there's someone in this big world using a $50000 Hasselblad to take snaps of his lunch and post them on Facebook. But those are exceptions.

05-10-2017, 12:24 PM   #437
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
My daughter is an academically trained, experienced B&W landscape photographer who happens to earn her living on the operations side of live broadcast media. Her image capture tool of most frequent use walking Columbus Ave. from 81st - 66th and back daily, or in Central Park, or wherever she is - her camera is her iPhone because she always has it. Alternatively she uses an F3 and (at this time) a 67ll which, at 5'2", must require dedication to carry with lenses and tripod.

I of course don't have permission to post or even to hotlink them, but I defy anyone to say her images aren't photographs and she isn't a photographer.
Indeed!

There are some professions (doctor, lawyer, police officer, engineer) that have legal definitions and legal penalties for claiming to be one, but photographer is not one of them. Instead, "photographer" is is more loosely defined by the person's skill, intent, and actions and certainly not by their choice of tools. Moreover, if one is a camera maker, one isn't going to be so persnickety as to say that iPhone users aren't allowed to buy K-1s.

What's interesting (on the original topic of the thread) is that more people are seeing the K-1 as a good tool despite it being a DSLR. And part of that may because the K-1 is distinctly unlike an iPhone in size, functionality, performance, controls, ergonomics, etc. Those that say Pentax should be more like other increasingly popular cameras (iPhones, MILCs, etc.) may be destroying what makes Pentax better because Pentax is different in being a DSLR.
05-10-2017, 01:26 PM - 1 Like   #438
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I guess there's someone in this big world using a $50000 Hasselblad to take snaps of his lunch and post them on Facebook. But those are exceptions.
I was of course jokingly responding to and affirming thibs' post above.

QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Indeed!

There are some professions (doctor, lawyer, police officer, engineer) that have legal definitions and legal penalties for claiming to be one, but photographer is not one of them. Instead, "photographer" is is more loosely defined by the person's skill, intent, and actions and certainly not by their choice of tools. Moreover, if one is a camera maker, one isn't going to be so persnickety as to say that iPhone users aren't allowed to buy K-1s.

What's interesting (on the original topic of the thread) is that more people are seeing the K-1 as a good tool despite it being a DSLR. And part of that may because the K-1 is distinctly unlike an iPhone in size, functionality, performance, controls, ergonomics, etc. Those that say Pentax should be more like other increasingly popular cameras (iPhones, MILCs, etc.) may be destroying what makes Pentax better because Pentax is different in being a DSLR.
While some of her New Mexico wet prints hang in our home, it is remarkable what one can do with a phone for web posting, given a photographer's eye and a decent camera app.
05-10-2017, 03:08 PM - 1 Like   #439
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Those that say Pentax should be more like other increasingly popular cameras (iPhones, MILCs, etc.) may be destroying what makes Pentax better because Pentax is different in being a DSLR.
"In being a DSLR", Pentax is just like Canon and Nikon in APS-C/FF, or Leica in MF.

As of right now, it is actually the Q system that makes Pentax different!

05-10-2017, 10:24 PM   #440
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
"In being a DSLR", Pentax is just like Canon and Nikon in APS-C/FF, or Leica in MF.
As of right now, it is actually the Q system that makes Pentax different!
I though it was because of the film duplicator?
PENTAX Film Duplicator (with Mount Holder 24x36) - RICOH IMAGING EUROPE S.A.S
05-11-2017, 02:04 AM - 1 Like   #441
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The three reasons that K-mount backward compatibility matters are lenses, lenses and lenses.
  1. You don't want to obsolete your substantial existing inventory of K-mount lenses
  2. Your current customers don't want you to obsolete their substantial existing inventory of K-mount lenses.
  3. Your capital allocation decision makers don't want you to commit the firm to development of a catalog of lenses that obsoletes your substantial existing inventory of K-mount lenses tools and your K-mount lenses knowledge base
That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it - but there are strong headwinds . . . .
I agree.
Which means any new Pentax FF camera must be able to handle the three 2015/2016 f2.8 DFA zooms (15-30, 24-70 and 70-200), which, AFAIK, do need a mechanical aperture lever. Those who bought them have invested >$7000 in K1 and K mount recent lenses, including also the DFA 150-450 or 28-105.

And I believe this feature would be very difficult to implement into an adapter to a new fully electronic mount.
Which is why I believe a future first mirrorless FF Pentax should be K-mount.
If it is K-mount, it can also include the screwdrive AF feature, in order to AF with the three FA limiteds.

---------- Post added 05-11-17 at 11:17 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
I suppose I should ask you to place your bet, good sir. On a scale of 1 to 10, how likely do you think it is that within two years Pentax will have rolled out a brand-new MILC concept and a whole line of excellent native lenses to go with it? I'm thinking here of at least APS-C or M43-ish in size, but not a smaller sensor.
I think Ricoh could develop a mirrorless FF K-mount within one of two years, most of the R&D would be about on sensor AF performance and video performance, they have all the other key technologies: just another K1 but no mirror and a EVF.
Starting FF would mean the extra bulk of keeping the K-mount wouldnt really matter and the price tag could be higher.
And it would strengthen the overall appeal of the K-mount.

Last edited by Tatouzou; 05-11-2017 at 03:14 AM.
05-11-2017, 12:11 PM - 1 Like   #442
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AFAIK A-mount also has/had mechanical link. Didn't stop Sony though...
05-11-2017, 12:42 PM   #443
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
My daughter is an academically trained, experienced B&W landscape photographer who happens to earn her living on the operations side of live broadcast media. Her image capture tool of most frequent use walking Columbus Ave. from 81st - 66th and back daily, or in Central Park, or wherever she is - her camera is her iPhone because she always has it. Alternatively she uses an F3 and (at this time) a 67ll which, at 5'2", must require dedication to carry with lenses and tripod.

I of course don't have permission to post or even to hotlink them, but I defy anyone to say her images aren't photographs and she isn't a photographer.
Sounds like she has a career that many a photographer would regard as a dream job. May I ask if a father's interest in photography had an influence on her career choice ?

05-11-2017, 05:52 PM   #444
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
No, they're competing with AliMed for those:

Film Duplicator
05-11-2017, 08:00 PM - 1 Like   #445
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
Sounds like she has a career that many a photographer would regard as a dream job. May I ask if a father's interest in photography had an influence on her career choice ?
Coming full circle, she might jump ship from film and buy a K-1 after all.

I suppose it led to her choice of Photography as her HS Art elective. There was always a camera in my hand or her mother's, and once you've stepped through a door . . . .

Our Public School District teaches non-core electives as vocations, so Photography was taught as a professional skill, from capture through developing to printing; leading to (mandatory) shooting for Yearbook and Newspaper as a Journalism Class for academic credit; which became Yearbook Photograpy Editor and then Editor-In-Chief, which Yearbook won National Recognition (Mandatory competitive submission); leading to a Media Fellowship for her Undergraduate studies; where she rose to Managing Producer of the college television News Division with English L&L Major and Photography Minor; after which she was recruited by a Network News Division on the Washington Bureau and promoted to Operations Producer for one of the evening nightly news broadcasts in New York. The career chose her.

Actually, her experience has challenged me and renewed my interest in the art. She's home for the weekend visiting her new Nephew and Niece, and we've just spent a couple hours judging my pBase galleries and playing with the K-1.

She's highly complimentary of the camera; less so of the shooter.

Last edited by monochrome; 05-11-2017 at 09:02 PM.
05-11-2017, 09:06 PM   #446
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Coming full circle, she might jump ship from film and buy a K-1 after all.

I suppose it led to her choice of Photography as her HS Art elective. There was always a camera in my hand or her mother's, and once you've stepped through a door . . . .

Our Public School District teaches non-core electives as vocations, so Photography was taught as a professional skill, from capture through developing to printing; leading to (mandatory) shooting for Yearbook and Newspaper as a Journalism Class for academic credit; which became Yearbook Photograpy Editor and then Editor-In-Chief, which Yearbook won National Recognition (Mandatory competitive submission); leading to a Media Fellowship for her Undergraduate studies; where she rose to Managing Producer of the college television News Division with English L&L Major and Photography Minor; after which she was recruited by a Network News Division on the Washington Bureau and promoted to Operations Producer for one of the evening nightly news broadcasts in New York. The career chose her.

Actually, her experience has challenged me and renewed my interest in the art. She's home for the weekend visiting her new Nephew and Niece, and we've just spent a couple hours judging my pBase account and playing with the K-1.

She's highly complimentary of the camera; less so of the shooter.

Quite an achiever, your daughter.

"She's highly complimentary of the camera; less so of the shooter. " Sounds like me, my photographic equipment surpasses my skill.
05-11-2017, 09:15 PM - 1 Like   #447
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
Quite an achiever, your daughter.

"She's highly complimentary of the camera; less so of the shooter. " Sounds like me, my photographic equipment surpasses my skill.
I attribute my children's brains to their mother, skill to their teachers and energy to their spirit. My job was to drive and pay.
05-11-2017, 10:52 PM - 1 Like   #448
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Imagine a Pentax camera body with the A9's sensor, electronics, and EVF inside a body that also had an OVF. Wouldn't a sufficient number of people pay a couple hundred more for an OVF/EVF version that can switch between DSLR and MILC modes? Rather than make a me-too MILC at extremely high investment cost of developing a new system, Pentax would do better to create something different (at far lower R&D costs) that delivers functionality that Sony cannot deliver.
This is exactly what I am proposing, and is healthier for the overall industry, to have unprecedented development and synergy of technologies. Regardless of sensor tech used inside, more space in a DSLR with mirror raised up means better weight distribution, better cooling, more balanced body for any zoom lens, and for modern primes which are big.[*] I have no doubts that in this mode, and with latest imaging processors, Ricoh Imaging can deliver

– a 24 MP APS-C, dual card, deep buffer camera that has 9-10 fps with mirror (current K3 can do 8.3 fps),
– some ~15-20 fps in mirrorless mode, when using a PLM focus by wire lens.
– I can also see a ~4MP EVF overlay in it,
– all delivered close to a price of K-1, which is ~$800 more than the current K3II / KP.

In other words, is Ricoh Imaging capable to use most of current achievements which it already sells for $900, add
new features like the EVF, raised up mirror, more buffer and better data I/O for ~extra $800? I think they could do it.

It creates a whole new category!

//* The size of current mirrorless cameras, pathetically, works best with film-era small primes. Put a modern prime on it, or a zoom, and all is a big joke, that in 1960s or 1970s would have never been designed if large primes, and zoom lenses, were more available. Indeed, I see that the modern mirrorless trend, and its marketing, is based on a lie, and it does not match modern lens design at all. //

Last edited by Uluru; 05-11-2017 at 11:15 PM.
05-12-2017, 12:21 AM   #449
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
a 24 MP APS-C, dual card, deep buffer camera that has 9-10 fps with mirror (current K3 can do 8.3 fps),
some ~15-20 fps in mirrorless mode, when using a PLM focus by wire lens.
I can also see a ~4MP EVF overlay in it,
all delivered close to a price of K-1, which is ~$800 more than the current K3II / KP.
That looks very expensive to me. They still need to upgrade the af-mode since it can only handle like 4 fps on af-c in tracking. At the same price as K-1 I don't see them sell many of these models with just aps-c.
05-12-2017, 04:09 PM   #450
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QuoteOriginally posted by wjjstu Quote
They say an updated mirrorless K-02 won't sink the company and it would be the best of both worlds/just as good! ... They definitely missed the boat with me. The limitations are real.

Sry, i really dont read the K-02 suggestion that often, so i dont worry about it.

But what i really dont understand is why you see a limitation, when you say you do know about the technical background etc.

You seem to have missed the transformation of the Minolta/Sony-A Mount.
The A99 uses the same mount and the same lenses as the A900 which is a mere DSLR...
(That is in a kind of a frightening way, very closely related to the K-1 if you take a closer look...)
I am totally OK with PENTAX/Ricoh-Imaging taking the same path Sony already took to surpass Nikon.

So I dont see any reason why we should not have the SLT tech of Sonys A99 or something better...(vari-translucent-mirror FI - Ricoh imaging patented such a techn.)

But NO, NO and double-NO, i dont need that being released as the next camera...

I would be totally happy if the AF of the K-1 successor is top-notch, has a huge and fast buffer system and shoots about the same stills burst framerate with AF.C just like a D500.
That would make every Pentax-Depression obsolete.(still one would have to learn how to use it and accept there still is a learning curve)
And nobody should feel insulted in his/hers "i only do perfect shots when i press my shutter button"-dogma...
When such a camera is demanded and in consequence of that also arrives the market.

Because they still can buy themselves a K-1 for about 2000 bucks and save their money, whilst others are willing to spend 500-1000 Euro more on real professional gear.


---------- Post added 05-12-17 at 04:15 PM ----------

And since i read something about an A9 sensor would be good...

i wanted to state that i dont agree, because other Sony Sensors perform much better when it comes to IQ. If its needed for the fast readout... OK.
But one should not want the sensor for its IQ because actually its not that good.

And be warned it is not my intention to spark a technical discussion because as photographers we really should not dive to deep into the details.
I would leave that to the engineers at Ricoh and their colaborating or subordinated companies.

---------- Post added 05-12-17 at 04:54 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
... raised up mirror...
M.UP (mirror up) is there since analog times...(film) i dont have the slightest clue why its missing in some Pentax D)SLRs.
The real cool thing would still be the electronic shutter just as silent and fast as on the A9....
Ricoh-Imaging should work on their own sensors ... so they are not bound and tied until Sony says you can have the sensor you need.
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