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05-24-2017, 11:21 PM   #646
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I'd like a touch screen, but, it needs to know when it's my nose and not my fingers, or we'll get out of sorts with each other real fast! Plus, then the problem of cold weather shooting.

05-25-2017, 01:12 AM - 2 Likes   #647
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That whole touchscreen idea is the last thing I would want for the next or any PENTAX camera in the semi-near future...

Better autofocus
is defenitely first on the list.

Also a bigger buffer, faster framerate or even 4K vids would attract more people than a Touchscreen.
(or at least make less people leave the PENTAX system)
05-25-2017, 01:37 AM   #648
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QuoteOriginally posted by camyum Quote
That whole touchscreen idea is the last thing I would want for the next or any PENTAX camera in the semi-near future...

Better autofocus
is defenitely first on the list.

Also a bigger buffer, faster framerate or even 4K vids would attract more people than a Touchscreen.
(or at least make less people leave the PENTAX system)
I'd guess that a different kind of set of camera controls including touch screens and maybe even voice control is something that will emerge over time from various experiments in the whole camera industry. No one company will provide the full answer but if something catches on then chances are it will be adopted more widely and refined. Ease of use and general demystification are what clever technology is usually good at and I hope to see more of it. I might still prefer a more traditional kind of camera but if the industry retreats into some kind of high-end redoubt for oh-so-serious photographers rather than human beings who'd simply like to enjoy themselves then it will destroy itself all the more quickly, imho.

Pentax are usually about offering value, features and excellent IQ against top performance. They aren't trying to win in the 0-60 mph stakes. I would be looking for top-quality IQ and would not expect class-leading frame rates and the like. That's not really Pentax. The areas that are really costing them dearly are AF, modern lenses and video, imho. And a large part of that cost is a negative image of the brand caused by lack of marketing, so nothing is ever available to counter problems of brand image. That's where the no marketing approach comes back to bite one very hard. In fact, Pentax AF is not nearly as poor as it is often painted (imho) and there are many positive things to say about the unique qualities of many of their lenses, like the DA Limiteds, which as a result are often underrated. But there is no positive voice out there making the case. Sorry, but Pentax's main difficulty is that it's simply not been very well run if Ricoh's intention is to make a success of the brand rather than keep it in a perpetual holding pattern while they work out what to do next, if ever they do. I realize that might sound pretty arrogant but I ask around in daily life and what I hear, if the person even knows of Pentax, is so often nearly all the result of lack of a clear, positive message from publicity and marketing. That's one reason Pentax are regularly joshed by sites like dipreview. If you speak in a voice so low no one can hear you then folks will soon start talking over you.

Last edited by mecrox; 05-25-2017 at 01:49 AM.
05-25-2017, 01:56 AM   #649
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Pentax are usually about offering value, features and excellent IQ against top performance. They aren't trying to win in the 0-60 mph stakes. I would be looking for top-quality IQ and would not expect class-leading frame rates and the like. That's not really Pentax. The areas that are really costing them dearly are AF, modern lenses and video, imho. And a large part of that cost is a negative image of the brand caused by lack of marketing, so nothing is ever available to counter problems of brand image. That's where the no marketing approach comes back to bite one very hard. In fact, Pentax AF is not nearly as poor as it is often painted (imho) and there are many positive things to say about the unique qualities of many of their lenses, like the DA Limiteds, which as a result are often underrated. But there is no positive voice out there making the case. Sorry, but Pentax's main difficulty is that it's simply not been very well run if Ricoh's intention is to make a success of the brand rather than keep it in a perpetual holding pattern while they work out what to do next, if ever they do. I realize that might sound pretty arrogant but I ask around in daily life and what I hear, if the person even knows of Pentax, is so often nearly all the result of lack of a clear, positive message from publicity and marketing. That's one reason Pentax are regularly joshed by sites like dipreview. If you speak in a voice so low no one can hear you then folks will soon start talking over you.
agree with all that

05-25-2017, 07:56 AM   #650
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
...ns and maybe even voice control is something that will emerge over time from various experiments in the whole camera industry.....
??

Pls recapture yourself.
D'ya really want to "plant" -voice control- in Pentax Land and say everybody who would rather harvest better AF and faster framerates is a snob?!?

Because that reads out as the bottomline of your post.

I also see the Cost-Angst in your post, but believe me there is no reason for that.
I hope you can accept that costs in camera production are not that dependent on the cost of parts. Be it some "new" motor like PLM... (that's been offered to the industry for more then 10 years by now.) or something else.

talkin about the lack of marketing:
To buy into a market... that is what really makes it expensive.
Only "grease" makes the world go round. (Watch the news, it really is a pretty bad place if you aint white and either north american or central european resident.)
You wouldnt believe how much plot is involved in a whole industry, and what makes "grease" even more expensive, is that those big guns in the industry really are aware of what they are trading. Its not the next Qs numbers, its always about the whole future...
Just take a good guess what Nikon had to throw on the table to pulsate into everybodys face in every darn episode of C.S.I and in every f... spinoff of it.


What do you think, what PENTAX paid for the product placement in Femme Fatale?
(Brian de Palma Movie , featuring Antonio Banderas and Rebecca Romijin)
and if you want to get real big, product placement is no more for you... the new thing is "Brand Pattern Placement" and that my friend costs the real big money.
Maybe if you watch the Batman Movie Trilogy again you will get the point.

I hope you can understand such things are certainly not for free and the average Joes like us, will never see the vast amount of money a company that has a revenue of
2.231 trillion!!! yen has to drop off to get placed like this.

ROFL, lack of marketing...
We even are placed on one of NETFLIX best succeeding series..."Stranger Things".

RICOH is sponsering so many sports teams in the U.S.


So recapturing all those facts, i really dont feel anxious to demand better AF on Pentax-Systems as a long loyal customer.
I dont even see it that Double-PLM technology would make Pentax gear that more expensive.

Go and compare the new top-notch pentax glasses pricing against Nikons G or Canons 2nd Generation of L Glass.
You will be amazed how much one can get for the price of a DFA 70-200...
Keep in mind that Canon even produces its glass in japan, where people cost real money.

I hope you dont get the impression i want to talk bad about my brand.
No I am certainly not, its just time to put the foot down and open the throttle...
And the more people will complain about that AF problem,
the sooner some reps will tap some bureaucrats on their shoulders and they drop off some Dimes for funny little PLM drives in our lenses.

Denial not only never helps, it also slows down real progress.

Last edited by BigMackCam; 06-04-2017 at 12:56 PM.
05-25-2017, 08:12 AM   #651
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QuoteOriginally posted by camyum Quote
??

Pls recapture yourself.
D'ya really want to "plant" -voice control- in Pentax Land and say everybody who would rather harvest better AF and faster framerates is a snob?!?

Because that reads out as the bottomline of your post.

I also see the Cost-Angst in your post, but believe me there is no reason for that.
I hope you can accept that costs in camera production are not that dependent on the cost of parts. Be it some "new" motor like PLM... (that's been offered to the industry for more then 10 years by now.) or something else.

talkin about the lack of marketing:
To buy into a market... that is what really makes it expensive.
Only "grease" makes the world go round. (Watch the news, it really is a pretty bad place if you aint white and either north american or central european resident.)
You wouldnt believe how much plot is involved in a whole industry, and what makes "grease" even more expensive, is that those big guns in the industry really are aware of what they are trading. Its not the next Qs numbers, its always about the whole future...
Just take a good guess what Nikon had to throw on the table to pulsate into everybodys face in every darn episode of C.S.I and in every f... spinoff of it.


What do you think, what PENTAX paid for the product placement in Femme Fatale?
(Brian de Palma Movie , featuring Antonio Banderas and Rebecca Romijin)
and if you want to get real big, product placement is no more for you... the new thing is "Brand Pattern Placement" and that my friend costs the real big money.
Maybe if you watch the Batman Movie Trilogy again you will get the point.

I hope you can understand such things are certainly not for free and the average Joes like us, will never see the vast amount of money a company that has a revenue of
2.231 trillion!!! yen has to drop off to get placed like this.

ROFL, lack of marketing...
We even are placed on one of NETFLIX best succeeding series..."Stranger Things".

RICOH is sponsering so many sports teams in the U.S.


So recapturing all those facts, i really dont feel anxious to demand better AF on Pentax-Systems as a long loyal customer.
I dont even see it that Double-PLM technology would make Pentax gear that more expensive.

Go and compare the new top-notch pentax glasses pricing against Nikons G or Canons 2nd Generation of L Glass.
You will be amazed how much one can get for the price of a DFA 70-200...
Keep in mind that Canon even produces its glass in japan, where people cost real money.

I hope you dont get the impression i want to talk bad about my brand.
No I am certainly not, its just time to put the foot down and open the throttle...
And the more people will complain about that AF problem,
the sooner some reps will tap some bureaucrats on their shoulders and they drop off some Dimes for funny little PLM drives in our lenses.

Denial not only never helps, it also slows down real progress.
Nothing was intended against you or anyone else personally. I am sorry if you picked up that impression. The point is that really big changes to things aren't confined to a single company. They soon spread out across a whole industry because customers want them and in a few years they are the new normal. If camera interfaces change bigtime, this is what would happen. Personally I would welcome some new thinking and yes I do think that parts of the photography world can be stuffy and snobby where "consumer" rather than pro, artist, etc can used as a term of derision. Happy to be one myself. But none of that applies in here of course

No brand is "my" brand. I hate the idea of becoming hung up on a label. Horrid. I use what I have. Great that Ricoh sponsor sports et al but this has nothing whatsoever to do with Pentax. It's to do with the rest of their biz. In the meantime, Pentax have followed the minimal marketing come subterranean brand approach for a number of years now and I think it would be quite hard to argue otherwise even if you think it's a sensible idea which I expect many folks do. Remember: Pentax are about top IQ. If they blow that they blow everything so someone is setting themselves up for disappointment if they also expect class-leading everything else, like video or frame rates. It's not what the company is about.

Last edited by BigMackCam; 06-04-2017 at 12:55 PM.
05-25-2017, 08:13 AM   #652
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
I'd like a touch screen, but, it needs to know when it's my nose and not my fingers, or we'll get out of sorts with each other real fast! Plus, then the problem of cold weather shooting.
This is a big deal for those of us who live where ice and snow are not uncommon. Buttons and dials can be used with gloves on -- touch screens not so much.

05-25-2017, 10:33 AM   #653
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don't worry. No offense taken...

i only wanted you to know, that RICOH is already pumping loads of money in
brand(or product) placement for BOTH! RICOH(as brand) and its PENTAX brand.
Because you mentioned lack of adverts.

And if placing PENTAX cameras in booming TV or netflix series is not good advertisement, i cant help you anyways.

Rest assured, no professional and very famous photographer will do explicit advertising for PENTAX(RICOH IMAGING) unless it offers fast and accurate AF in its lenses(and also installs some silent supporters in the industry).

At the very moment you mentioned that we would lack advertising, you would get a star like Kristian Schuller, Daniel Sannwald or Andreas H. Bitesnich to promote a 645digital from PENTAX at best.
(and that only for one time in some magazine)
Or you may find a well known landscape photographer who does the ambassador for the brand.

But that is the point where advertisement with pro-photo-background for PENTAX will end(at the moment), until real AF-improvements and more fast (and also fast focusing) DFA lenses
(with optical design from either Pentax or a brand with a long history and great reputation alike, like maybe Schneider-Kreuznach)
visit beloved Pentaxland.


Despite all that photo-industry plot we forum people cant or most likely will not be able to change anything about...
It is also a fact, that if more people who use a PENTAX already insist on getting better AF,
RICOH will certainly do something about it.
That is where all the Pentaxians should pull on the same string, if they really welcome new thinking.


Because sugarcoating PENTAX for having nice IQ and WR is a rather old hat and nowhere near "new thinking".
Those times should end (today, if not yesterday) if we want to see a change.


BTW, RICOH Imaging, is the company that owns the PENTAX brand and offers RICOH branded cameras also, so RICOH advertising will affect the PENTAX brand without any discussion.
At that point i wanted to note, that:
As I also dont feel like I am the "label"-guy, I wouldnt even mind a bit if the next FF camera from RICOH would be branded as RICOH as long as it keeps the K-mount.


And still I can not see exactly, why having better AF should end in having a bad Image Quality.

Did not happen at Nikon (which allegedly still uses Sony sensors...)
Did not even happen at Canon (which allegedly still uses its own sensors...)
Will not happen at Ricoh (which allegedly still uses Sony sensors...)

05-25-2017, 10:52 AM   #654
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Sorry, but Pentax's main difficulty is that it's simply not been very well run if Ricoh's intention is to make a success of the brand rather than keep it in a perpetual holding pattern while they work out what to do next, if ever they do. I realize that might sound pretty arrogant but I ask around in daily life and what I hear, if the person even knows of Pentax, is so often nearly all the result of lack of a clear, positive message from publicity and marketing. That's one reason Pentax are regularly joshed by sites like dipreview. If you speak in a voice so low no one can hear you then folks will soon start talking over you.

Well said. I just don't get why this doesn't bother those that manage the imaging division?
05-25-2017, 01:11 PM   #655
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Much or that negativity is propagated by people with an agenda (e.g. forcing other brands or technologies), or people who had issues in the past and won't forget about that. That's not easily fixed with "a clear, positive message from publicity and marketing".
05-25-2017, 02:24 PM   #656
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Pentax's message isn't heard in the United States because they have almost no presence here at all. I think it is a little different in Japan where they have a real footprint in terms of both advertising and store presence. I think it is a mistake on their part, but I think they haven't figured out to do with US at this point.
05-25-2017, 02:24 PM   #657
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
This is a big deal for those of us who live where ice and snow are not uncommon. Buttons and dials can be used with gloves on -- touch screens not so much.
Exactly! A common problem here too. I do like the convenience of my touchscreen phone and think that could be handy, at times, on my camera too. But I do own special gloves that allow me to use a touchscreen gloves and all. Bloody inconvenient without the right gloves!
05-25-2017, 04:07 PM   #658
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Exactly! A common problem here too. I do like the convenience of my touchscreen phone and think that could be handy, at times, on my camera too. But I do own special gloves that allow me to use a touchscreen gloves and all. Bloody inconvenient without the right gloves!
My experience with those gloves was both that they don't work very well (clumsy and don't always activate the screen) and they aren't usually hiking/skiing/heavy duty gloves that you want to use if it is significantly below freezing.
05-25-2017, 04:29 PM - 1 Like   #659
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
not at the prices they demand new, they aren't. Sometimes i think i'd love to have one to shoot with for a day, but i have yet to understand why i should allow my wallet to be savaged for what can amount to the cost of a k-1 and any two fast zooms. Give me a scene, an iso, a shutter speed, a focal length, an aperture and an equivalent-sized sensor and tell me exactly what it is about leica which makes the price worth it.
this:
Attached Images
 
05-25-2017, 05:20 PM - 1 Like   #660
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LOL, I know it's the badge that gives them the excuse, but if you took that off and put anything else on (or nothing at all), could you command the prices they do based only on performance?
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