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09-03-2017, 02:22 AM   #886
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
there's always new people entering the game - and some of them have money and want to go in high with prestige models
Nikon has some problems in convincing those people to invest in their system due to the bad reputation of D750, D610. One of the popular jokes regarding D850's release was "The first thing I did when I saw D850 was to go to Nikon's website and see if a recall is available".

Not to mention that for people with money that want prestige models there is Leica and the new medium format mirrorless cameras from Hasselblad or Fuji.

Those who are shooting with D610 or D750 and have mediocre lenses will have a big surprise when they will mount those lenses on D850. The high resolution sensor is not forgiving...

09-03-2017, 03:03 AM   #887
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Originally posted by ffking
there's always new people entering the game - and some of them have money and want to go in high with prestige models
Nikon has some problems in convincing those people to invest in their system due to the bad reputation of D750, D610. One of the popular jokes regarding D850's release was "The first thing I did when I saw D850 was to go to Nikon's website and see if a recall is available".

Not to mention that for people with money that want prestige models there is Leica and the new medium format mirrorless cameras from Hasselblad or Fuji.

Those who are shooting with D610 or D750 and have mediocre lenses will have a big surprise when they will mount those lenses on D850. The high resolution sensor is not forgiving...
My original comment was a bit of a throwaway, so no biggie, but the people I was about were those who are after hi-tech jewellry and follow the buzz. If Nikon have got this right, that's where the buzz will be. Canon aren't creating much of late. But as I say, just a throwaway.
09-03-2017, 04:39 AM   #888
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
When someone wants to buy a house and has a $300k budget, how much impact does a good looking $600k house have on the average buyer? ...


When someone wants to buy a house and has a $300k budget, is really into photography and absolutely gear addicted...
i guess none...?
The person will more likely buy a $180000k house... Shell out about 2000 on some good glass, 4000 on a D850 body with some gear added,
and than go and buy him/herself an LS911 camera for the ridiculous amount of 104.000 US Dollars.
(or they may wait for the second version that offers 4k and higher framerates) LOL
09-03-2017, 02:56 PM   #889
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Pentax right now is like Subaru before it was cool. People won't really switch from some other brand to Pentax. But every year a few different, curious people will try Pentax and stick with the brand. Over time the brand will grow slowly, slowly, and then suddenly.

Pentax doesn't have to be Toyota.
Excellent, excellent.

So true.

09-07-2017, 06:13 AM   #890
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Pentax right now is like Subaru before it was cool. People won't really switch from some other brand to Pentax. But every year a few different, curious people will try Pentax and stick with the brand. Over time the brand will grow slowly, slowly, and then suddenly.

Pentax doesn't have to be Toyota.
I dont like comparing apples to oranges, but I hope you are right regarding the future of the system.

Nonetheless ...
I dont know where Subaru is cool but i am sure this is not an international trend...
... walking all over Europe, you will not see that much Subaru.
Actually the only model, that looks a bit like something and is powerful enough to make people go "Wow!" is the Subaru Impreza but only as a rally model (STI)...

So yes... maybe its the same with pentax ... suddenly ...a bit more value on the stock market and then... nothing.
(Maybe things look different in the US...)
Since you started comparing car brands ... again.
I will join and say i would rather buy a Honda Civic (tourer)like most americans and europeans do.
or (only in Europe) the new Citroen C3 Aircross... those are cars that will not win a rally, but still they are sturdy, versatile and good for travelling.

Back to where its cooking:

The K-1 actually isnt that bad. (dunno why critics on certain drawbacks that are 100% justified, always end up in sayin one wants to bash the product or even the brand as a whole...)

IMHO comparing the K-1 to the A7(for instance)the K-1 will win for sure. And i like that it is on the market available as a serious tool for people that really feel the need for FF.
(I also would love to work on FF but not with those specs, nonetheless...>) For doing only studio photography it fullfills your needs to the fullest.

But it doesnt attract consumers as much as the A7 does.

Not that it wouldnt look sexy... if there is any camera on the market that looks like a real camera(despite those wheels and this ridic incy wincy top lcd)
it is the K-1 for sure.

Advantages of the A7 are actually what the most "compulsive" pixelpeepers and MP-fanboys may perceive as its disadvantages.


IMHO, the K-1 doesnt have the attraction factor it would need to make the title the OP chose true in any way.

It may be under the best cameras available on the market specwise(if you dont look to close at its AF system)...
... but it is not would one consider "complaisant" (i hope i chose the right word).. or very attractive to customers...

nor would I choose to immigrate into pentaxland (when i own Canon gear f.i.)where one seriously misses 3rd party support if hes not willing to search for ages for certain accessory.
And for getting more 3rd party support, RICOH would need a blockbuster K-mount camera... and that aint our beloved 36MP DSLR camera for sure. not now.
What makes me think that? ---> Keywords: "Data Amount", "laggy processing","Fun Factor - Good Video"

If you want to go popular, you will need to build popular instead for the loudest (MP-)fans in some forum.



EOL
I cant await the follow up car comparisons...
09-07-2017, 07:43 AM   #891
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QuoteOriginally posted by patarok Quote
nor would I choose to immigrate into pentaxland (when i own Canon gear f.i.)where one seriously misses 3rd party support if hes not willing to search for ages for certain accessory.
And for getting more 3rd party support, RICOH would need a blockbuster K-mount camera... and that aint our beloved 36MP DSLR camera for sure. not now.
What makes me think that? ---> Keywords: "Data Amount", "laggy processing","Fun Factor - Good Video"

If you want to go popular, you will need to build popular instead for the loudest (MP-)fans in some forum.
Just to make sure I understand, you do not own the K-1, nor do you have any intention of buying one unless the 3rd-party support issues are fixed to your satisfaction?
Unfortunately, there's no easy and fast solution.

I'll use and paraphrase one of my favorite quotes: there is no silver bullet; there is no single development, either as a product or as marketing strategy, which by itself would promise an order of magnitude increase in third-party support. The K-1 is working very well at expanding the K-mount user base; the execution was simply brilliant. Better is the enemy of good; a faster camera with much improved video would've likely been much worse... perhaps, as in: not yet on the market
But it takes time for the unwilling 3rd-party makers (I'm talking about you, Sigma!) to recognize the opportunity; and their historical data shows that we are not buying their products in "sufficient" quantities... it's hard to argue against that.

Note that what you perceive as "the loudest (MP-)fans in some forum" might be actual buyers. And that's what Pentax needs, not products people are only talking about!
09-07-2017, 08:31 AM   #892
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Those who are shooting with D610 or D750 and have mediocre lenses will have a big surprise when they will mount those lenses on D850. The high resolution sensor is not forgiving...
Have you actually heard of a case where this happened with any system? How do the Canon lenses hold up with that 51 MP sensor? I wold think if any system was going to tax a lens it would be that one...
09-07-2017, 10:13 AM   #893
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read my words, because i cant read yours since its always the same nay sayin

words:

ignore,
list

LOL

09-07-2017, 10:42 AM   #894
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Have you actually heard of a case where this happened with any system? How do the Canon lenses hold up with that 51 MP sensor? I wold think if any system was going to tax a lens it would be that one...
16-35mm f2.8L II is not doing good on 5DsR, just to give an example of a good lens. Canon updated the lens due to the demands of the users. That lens is good on 5D Mark III and 5D Mark IV, but it's soft on 5DsR. 85mm f1.8 which is very good for its price, on 5DsR its very soft.

Not to mention that every small user error is visible on a 36, 45, 50mp camera. A 24mp sensor is more forgiving.
09-07-2017, 11:14 AM   #895
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QuoteOriginally posted by patarok Quote
I dont like comparing apples to oranges, but I hope you are right regarding the future of the system.

Nonetheless ...
I dont know where Subaru is cool but i am sure this is not an international trend...
... walking all over Europe, you will not see that much Subaru.
Actually the only model, that looks a bit like something and is powerful enough to make people go "Wow!" is the Subaru Impreza but only as a rally model (STI)...

So yes... maybe its the same with pentax ... suddenly ...a bit more value on the stock market and then... nothing.
(Maybe things look different in the US...)
Since you started comparing car brands ... again.
I will join and say i would rather buy a Honda Civic (tourer)like most americans and europeans do.
or (only in Europe) the new Citroen C3 Aircross... those are cars that will not win a rally, but still they are sturdy, versatile and good for travelling.

Back to where its cooking:

The K-1 actually isnt that bad. (dunno why critics on certain drawbacks that are 100% justified, always end up in sayin one wants to bash the product or even the brand as a whole...)

IMHO comparing the K-1 to the A7(for instance)the K-1 will win for sure. And i like that it is on the market available as a serious tool for people that really feel the need for FF.
(I also would love to work on FF but not with those specs, nonetheless...>) For doing only studio photography it fullfills your needs to the fullest.

But it doesnt attract consumers as much as the A7 does.

Not that it wouldnt look sexy... if there is any camera on the market that looks like a real camera(despite those wheels and this ridic incy wincy top lcd)
it is the K-1 for sure.

Advantages of the A7 are actually what the most "compulsive" pixelpeepers and MP-fanboys may perceive as its disadvantages.


IMHO, the K-1 doesnt have the attraction factor it would need to make the title the OP chose true in any way.

It may be under the best cameras available on the market specwise(if you dont look to close at its AF system)...
... but it is not would one consider "complaisant" (i hope i chose the right word).. or very attractive to customers...

nor would I choose to immigrate into pentaxland (when i own Canon gear f.i.)where one seriously misses 3rd party support if hes not willing to search for ages for certain accessory.
And for getting more 3rd party support, RICOH would need a blockbuster K-mount camera... and that aint our beloved 36MP DSLR camera for sure. not now.
What makes me think that? ---> Keywords: "Data Amount", "laggy processing","Fun Factor - Good Video"

If you want to go popular, you will need to build popular instead for the loudest (MP-)fans in some forum.



EOL
I cant await the follow up car comparisons...
The K-1 compares pretty well to other full frames on the market. I'm not totally sure about this "fun" factor that you mention. To me, a camera is a camera -- a tool designed to make images. As such, there are differences in ergonomics and how easily things are accessible via menus or external buttons, but I don't really think these sorts of things make photography fun. I would say that having fewer buttons and needing to do more menu diving could detract from fun, but photography is the goal and getting out early and trying to capture a little bit of the world around me is what I enjoy doing.

In the end, all of these cameras you mention are actually more similar than they are different. A few megapixels here or there, one is a little bigger and other a little smaller, one has an extra ten frames in its buffer and so on, but often what ends up selling cameras is product placement and advertising of which Pentax has none. That said, Pentax is offering a D810 lite for a very respectable price and it is a very capable camera and even, might I say "fun" to use to capture images.



09-07-2017, 11:28 AM   #896
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
But the DSLR market declined quite a bit since 2012.
Agree but if you are honest the D850 is the ultimate DSLR. It has everything you could ever dream for stills without any weaknesses. It has incredibly high level of details with 45MP, the best dynamic range of the whole FF market, fast enough burst rate and the best AF system currently availe for ultimate performance for action/sports, the most advanced sensor except maybe the one Sony put on the A9... To me the D850 is clearly a game changer nobody before offered a camera like that.
09-07-2017, 11:31 AM   #897
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
TThat said, Pentax is offering a D810 lite for a very respectable price and it is a very capable camera and even, might I say "fun" to use to capture images.
To me the K1 is more a D800 lite than D810. Well SR and pixel shift are on the side of K1, like the AF is on the side of D800. But only the D810 offer the extended dynamic range and go with a more modern sensor.
09-07-2017, 11:35 AM   #898
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The K-1 is working very well at expanding the K-mount user base; the execution was simply brilliant.
Source ? The K1 sold well for a few months. Current results as per Ricoh repport are terrible currently and I didn't see personally any increase in market share for Pentax be it from K1 or any other reason.

Do you have source that show a significant market share increase for Pentax since K1 was out ?

Last edited by Nicolas06; 09-07-2017 at 11:42 AM.
09-07-2017, 11:47 AM   #899
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
"The first thing I did when I saw D850 was to go to Nikon's website and see if a recall is available".
I'm sure that was a joke from a Canon camera owner.
09-07-2017, 11:48 AM   #900
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Have you actually heard of a case where this happened with any system? How do the Canon lenses hold up with that 51 MP sensor? I wold think if any system was going to tax a lens it would be that one...

canon released a list of recommended lenses for the 5ds/dsr a couple years ago
Canon Releases Recommended Lenses List for EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R
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