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11-24-2017, 03:53 AM   #1006
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QuoteOriginally posted by Glarus Quote
Which brings us to "Black Friday [week]," when we have yet to see anything but the same battery grip deal they've been running lately with the K-1, and no movement on price. Long told that Pentax's advantage is features for the price, I'm sitting here looking at a D750 with battery grip on Adorama for $1496.95, a full $400 less than the K-1. Everybody, including Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Fuji, Panasonic and Sony is discounting something, in some cases, desirable bodies at steeply discounted prices.

It leaves me wondering whether Ricoh really cares about cameras, and whether I've been stupid for sticking with Pentax. I love that Pentax puts image stabilization in its bodies, and I absolutely adore my Limited (DA and FA) lenses. The absence of equivalents is what keeps me from seriously considering a switch. With my uptick in overseas travel, weight and size have become factors, and Pentax is now losing points with me on specs that never mattered before. Sony's mirrorless APS-C and FF bodies have my attention (granted the latter are in another price bracket,) and so does this FF, weather-sealed Nikon that weighs 200g less, and costs $400 less, than the K-1. In-body IS is great, but in a kilogram boat anchor with industry-trailing AF, the K-1 suddenly doesn't seem like the shiny object I lust for. The magical, mythical camera that's reasonably small, light, fast- and accurately-focusing, produces excellent IQ, sealed, stabilized, and has glass you're happy to travel with is far more likely to say "SONY" on it than "PENTAX." I'm not leaving, just majorly bummed, knowing that it's only the money I've spent on much-loved glass that will keep me with this brand. Offering nothing this week while the competition battles for business is simply disheartening.
The D750 is an older model and bound to be replaced pretty soon. At the same time, it is probably a knock on the Nikon that it hasn't held its value very well. When the D750 was first released, it was selling for over 2 grand without a battery grip. The K-1 has been steady over that same period of time which has helped resale value for those who decided to put theirs on the used market.

I would say too that it really depends on what you are shooting. The D750 is basically a D610 with a better auto focus system and buffer. The K-1 is probably a better option for landscape/portrait shooters. I personally feel like pixel shift adds significant value to Pentax options from a landscape photography standpoint and use that feature quite a bit.

Anyway, if I were to guess, it would be to say that the K-1 will hold value for another year or so until it is ready to be replaced at which point it will drop some as Pentax clears out old stock.

11-24-2017, 04:00 AM   #1007
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The K-1 started out almost criminally cheap against its similarly-specced Nikon counterpart, and you want it even cheaper? Pull the other one.
11-24-2017, 08:05 AM - 2 Likes   #1008
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QuoteOriginally posted by WerTicus Quote
Sure but the better af system on the nikon is possibly worth the price difference.

I actually just picked up a d7200 which has the amazing AF system for $1000 aud. So the value proposition on Nikon is much better than it used to be.
We are currently considering a K-70 at about $700 CAD. It has SR, the new Pentax noise reduction chip, pixel shift. For me, I use SR on 90% of my images, I have more pixel shifted images than I have BiF images, and the high ISO performance of the K-70 is quite good. So, the value of the Nikon over here. But, if all you do with your camera is birding and sports, the Nikon might be worth the extra money. The best price for a D7200 here is $1000 CAD.

For $1049 here, you can get the K-70 and DA 18-135 package.

It's not like I never get BiF images with my Pentax gear...






None of these images are pre-focussed, all were captured by the Pentax AF system.

And it's not like you're going to nail everything with your 7200. So, hey, it wouldn't work for me, I'd miss more than I gained but hopefully it works out well for you. Happy shooting.
11-24-2017, 09:59 AM - 1 Like   #1009
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I would argue that the K-1 does not really compete with the D750, but rather the D820.

11-24-2017, 11:20 AM   #1010
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QuoteOriginally posted by timcatn Quote
I would argue that the K-1 does not really compete with the D750, but rather the D820.


D810? yes indeed and the D810 actually went UP in price from last year's black Friday sale pricing.


The D750 is more like the K-5 or K-3 in being a jack of all trades type body. That is why I just bought one.. even at 3 years old it is a PHENOMENAL camera. It is to me a full frame K-5 II with improved AF. Well outside of a louder shutter and somewhat misplaced buttons. I think the buttons might be reprogrammable though.. but it has rekindled my love for photography -- I want to take it everywhere I go versus having to force myself to lug the K-1 around. Horses for courses.


Successor could use a quieter, more reliable shutter (they've had several recalls for the shutter nuking itself), dedicated ISO button near the top LCD panel, and (if I had my druthers) a few more MP for extra cropping leverage. Beyond that it is a dream.
11-24-2017, 11:51 AM   #1011
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
The D750 is more like the K-5 or K-3
It more like a K30 in terms of positioning and build quality. Before I purchased a K1 , I used a D750 and the front dial wheel on the grip fell apart, I brought the D750 back to where it came from, I said "nowadays it looks like cameras are becoming disposable items" the seller acknowledged (he agreed with me). Now we also know that the D750 has shutter issues, they were more than one recall from Nikon. After that, I purchased a Pentax K1 shot 30K+ already and it still works like new. If I'd buy a Nikon model it would be D810 or D850, they entry level models are for competing with Canon plastic injected models, they are cheap and built cheap to match the low price.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 11-24-2017 at 12:07 PM.
11-24-2017, 12:43 PM   #1012
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
It more like a K30 in terms of positioning and build quality. Before I purchased a K1 , I used a D750 and the front dial wheel on the grip fell apart, I brought the D750 back to where it came from, I said "nowadays it looks like cameras are becoming disposable items" the seller acknowledged (he agreed with me). Now we also know that the D750 has shutter issues, they were more than one recall from Nikon. After that, I purchased a Pentax K1 shot 30K+ already and it still works like new. If I'd buy a Nikon model it would be D810 or D850, they entry level models are for competing with Canon plastic injected models, they are cheap and built cheap to match the low price.


Haha that would definitely be a problem!!


There are tons of people who report no problems.. despite the recalls.. and some that just seem to have all the problems. I think it is like SDM.. a number of people do have the issue.. meanwhile there are others with no problem whatsoever.


The shutter has definitely been the Achilles heel for the D750.. I think they've had 3 recalls for it (same recall but expanding the serial number grouping affected). There was a different recall in 2014 due to the material or coating on the AF module causing a dark line at the top of photos in bright light. That was resolved back then and future bodies do not have that issue. I knew all of this going in and figured there are no perfect cameras and at least Nikon are owning up to the issues and replacing it on their dime.


D750 is mid level in the lineup while the D610 is the entry FF body.. that one seems discontinued. My guess is the D750 gets an update next year, D610 is probably done. And perhaps that slot becomes an entry mirrorless later?


Either way I am really digging this D750. Again there are no perfect cameras but when you find one that really fits, I think you should ride it as long as possible. Or, as I also said, horses for courses (which means different things suit different people).
11-24-2017, 04:26 PM   #1013
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
D810? yes indeed and the D810 actually went UP in price from last year's black Friday sale pricing.
Yes. Meant to say D810. The D850 (would be D820) is a step up imo, but the price is also much higher.

11-24-2017, 04:33 PM   #1014
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QuoteOriginally posted by timcatn Quote
Yes. Meant to say D810. The D850 (would be D820) is a step up imo, but the price is also much higher.
Indeed. That D850 is a power house with a power price.

..maybe in a few years the pricing will be a bit more palatable...
11-24-2017, 06:12 PM   #1015
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Haha that would definitely be a problem!!


There are tons of people who report no problems.. despite the recalls.. and some that just seem to have all the problems. I think it is like SDM.. a number of people do have the issue.. meanwhile there are others with no problem whatsoever.


The shutter has definitely been the Achilles heel for the D750.. I think they've had 3 recalls for it (same recall but expanding the serial number grouping affected). There was a different recall in 2014 due to the material or coating on the AF module causing a dark line at the top of photos in bright light. That was resolved back then and future bodies do not have that issue. I knew all of this going in and figured there are no perfect cameras and at least Nikon are owning up to the issues and replacing it on their dime.


D750 is mid level in the lineup while the D610 is the entry FF body.. that one seems discontinued. My guess is the D750 gets an update next year, D610 is probably done. And perhaps that slot becomes an entry mirrorless later?


Either way I am really digging this D750. Again there are no perfect cameras but when you find one that really fits, I think you should ride it as long as possible. Or, as I also said, horses for courses (which means different things suit different people).
Glad you found something that works for you.
11-25-2017, 04:20 AM   #1016
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
It more like a K30 in terms of positioning and build quality. Before I purchased a K1 , I used a D750 and the front dial wheel on the grip fell apart, I brought the D750 back to where it came from, I said "nowadays it looks like cameras are becoming disposable items" the seller acknowledged (he agreed with me). Now we also know that the D750 has shutter issues, they were more than one recall from Nikon. After that, I purchased a Pentax K1 shot 30K+ already and it still works like new. If I'd buy a Nikon model it would be D810 or D850, they entry level models are for competing with Canon plastic injected models, they are cheap and built cheap to match the low price.
I've had similar comments from my LCS, about manufacturers now considering their products disposable, following the failure of my beloved GRDiv, and the absolutely dreadful customer service from Ricoh UK. The dealer was quite frank about this and at the time, mid 2015, said if anything Nikon were even worse for customer service than Ricoh. I find all this throw away consumerism from these once great brands depressing. I value longevity and reliability whatever I am buying, over technical excellence. Both are of course desirable. This is one of the reasons I still use and value my film gear, there are others due to personal taste. Lately my Q has died, leaving me with a choice of trying to get it repaired, or buy a replacement or sell off the lenses and accessories I have acquired. I bought it unopened new in 2014, as a replacement for the GRD, which in turn was a replacement for a Samsung EX1 which died after only two years and just out of warranty. Hopefully my K3 will prove more reliable, so far in 2 years no issues, but I have now reached the point that if it does fail, I will probably not buy another premium product from any manufacturer, but revert back to old film stuff, and sell my non-compatible digital gear on, which would be a shame, as I do like the digital stuff, and a customer will have been lost. In the past I have also been stung by hardware becoming obsolete, due to continuous so called "upgrades" by Microsoft. I am afraid shot-termism dominates modern corporations, and any future purchase by us, the customer, is fraught with potential pitfalls, whatever brand one chooses.
11-25-2017, 04:42 AM - 1 Like   #1017
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QuoteOriginally posted by richard0170 Quote
I find all this throw away consumerism from these once great brands depressing. I value longevity and reliability whatever I am buying, over technical excellence.
The funny thing is, your older product may last longer than the newer one.
11-25-2017, 04:47 AM - 1 Like   #1018
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The funny thing is, your older product may last longer than the newer one.
How depressingly true!
11-25-2017, 08:31 AM   #1019
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QuoteOriginally posted by richard0170 Quote
I've had similar comments from my LCS, about manufacturers now considering their products disposable, following the failure of my beloved GRDiv, and the absolutely dreadful customer service from Ricoh UK. The dealer was quite frank about this and at the time, mid 2015, said if anything Nikon were even worse for customer service than Ricoh. I find all this throw away consumerism from these once great brands depressing. I value longevity and reliability whatever I am buying, over technical excellence. Both are of course desirable. This is one of the reasons I still use and value my film gear, there are others due to personal taste. Lately my Q has died, leaving me with a choice of trying to get it repaired, or buy a replacement or sell off the lenses and accessories I have acquired. I bought it unopened new in 2014, as a replacement for the GRD, which in turn was a replacement for a Samsung EX1 which died after only two years and just out of warranty. Hopefully my K3 will prove more reliable, so far in 2 years no issues, but I have now reached the point that if it does fail, I will probably not buy another premium product from any manufacturer, but revert back to old film stuff, and sell my non-compatible digital gear on, which would be a shame, as I do like the digital stuff, and a customer will have been lost. In the past I have also been stung by hardware becoming obsolete, due to continuous so called "upgrades" by Microsoft. I am afraid shot-termism dominates modern corporations, and any future purchase by us, the customer, is fraught with potential pitfalls, whatever brand one chooses.
Film gear is a little different in a couple of ways. For one thing, people did not take the volume of images with it that they do with digital SLRs. My K3 is four years old and has taken over 40,000 images without a hiccup. I never would have taken that volume of images when I was still shooting film -- the cost of the film would have been too much. The other thing is obviously the cost of repairing electronics is often exorbitant. If the shutter goes on a camera that is actually relatively easy to replace, but get into any of the myriad electronics parts in a digital SLR and it is just cheaper to buy a new camera.

Add to that that the next generation camera will probably be faster and more polished and have new features and it is understandable why people choose not to repair.
11-25-2017, 08:39 AM   #1020
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Glad you found something that works for you.
Thanks. Me too.. so very much. I look forward to less gear discussion and more gear usage.

"Sad" thing is the deals come during the start of the coldest part of the year so there will be lots of indoor shots unless "global warming" helps me out a bit! I did take some river shots last year in December when it spiked to around 70 degrees out of no where.. that was excellent.

Not sure what do with my Pentax gear.. Still have the K-5 II and 18-135 kit, DA50, DA35, a couple M primes, and a Sigma 105 macro (that has sentimental value thus never selling). With my D750, 24-120 f/4 attached, and battery grip it is a nicely balanced combo but it is fun picking up the K-5 II with a DA50 and no grip right after. Feels miniaturized and like a feather comparatively. And I remember moving from the K-30 to the K-5 II and noticing a weight increase. haha
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