For each Pentaxian buying K-1 another Nikon/Canon shooter jumped ship to Pentax

Kunzite · 11-26-2017, 08:53 AM

Your preferences, your style, your customers. If it works for you, great. All I'm saying here is that sharpness is not very important to you, but it might be to others.

And if high sharpness is required by a high proportion of the (potential) customers... Ricoh Imaging doesn't really have a choice.
They can't sell much on "yeah... this lens is... adequate", while getting lukewarm reviews all over. They can't sell at prices allowing other advancements like a new ring-type SDM motor (which hopefully will become inexpensive enough to be included in many other lenses). They have to align with whatever current standards, at the very least.

normhead · 11-26-2017, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

And if high sharpness is required by a high proportion of the (potential) customers.

If and only if. You haven't made that case. I've added bit above illustrating this point.

Originally posted by normhead

One of my favourite stories was a day in the craft sale booth, a guy bought one of her images and one of mine. She spend a minute or two expelling what was wrong with mine, heavy contrast, dark shadows (a K20D sunset) image. At the end of of her little lecture, he simply nodded, pointed at it and said "I want that one." It may not have been photographically perfect in her mind (it was in mine or I wouldn't have printed it" but it was in his. There's a lot of folks out there who need to relax on the technical evaluations and just ask "does this appeal to me?"

The fact that these "more painterly " photos less desirable is completely unsupported. as demonstrated

As illustrated here, at least it used to be illustrated before Photobucket started holding my images for ransom, while it is important in some images, sharpness past a certain level is not necessary in every image. I've yet to see evidence a DFA 150-450 is better than my Tamron SP AF 300 which with the 1.4 or 1.7x is faster, despite the fact it's 20 years newer.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/203024-who-too...hotograph.html

Kunzite · 11-26-2017, 11:09 AM

My case is made by anyone discussing about sharpness, lack of CA, AF speed and other characteristics we can expect from the new lenses.

The problem here is that you're making your case based on "sharpness past a certain level is not necessary in every image". Yet your conclusion is that Pentax should not make sharper lenses - a gross generalization; you're making up an arbitrary limit which you say Pentax should not surpass. But everyone else did.
And you don't explain how Pentax could survive, if all the other brands have the advantage - be it real or perceived.

If the zoom reached prime quality... I'd say it's fine.

normhead · 11-26-2017, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

My case is made by anyone discussing about sharpness, lack of CA, AF speed and other characteristics we can expect from the new lenses.

The problem here is that you're making your case based on "sharpness past a certain level is not necessary in every image". Yet your conclusion is that Pentax should not make sharper lenses - a gross generalization; you're making up an arbitrary limit which you say Pentax should not surpass. But everyone else did.
And you don't explain how Pentax could survive, if all the other brands have the advantage - be it real or perceived.

If the zoom reached prime quality... I'd say it's fine.

Hogwash, my conclusion is that Pentax should make all kinds of lenses, 1.4 primes through ƒ4 primes, ƒ2.8, ƒ4 and variable aperture zooms they don't have to just focus on really expensive "super sharp" huge heavy 2.8 lenses Super sharp lenses and with weaker borders and lenses sharp across the frame. .Their current focus on 1.4 primes and 2.8 zooms is simply misplaced in terms of possible sales and market share.

But, spin it any way you want. Just don't tell me what I think.

I'm never impressed by folks who tell me what I think. They always seem to get it wrong. And it's usually intentionally, so they can make some kind of nit-picking argument.

Speak for yourself dude.

Racer X 69 · 11-26-2017, 11:52 AM - **3 Likes**

OK.

This discussion has derailed, so much so that it will never really get back on topic.

And the squabbling among the usual suspects has begun to escalate. You girls need to kiss and make up.

So . . . . . . .

Take that gear and get out there, and make some sharp, or not so sharp, images that are why y'all got cameras in the first place. Still plenty of late autumn, early winter things to shoot, or, for our friends in the Southern Hemisphere, late spring, early summer.

And then come on back and share that work. I for one always enjoy the beautiful work that many of you share here.

Sharp, or not so sharp.

Preferably shot with a Pentax camera.

11-26-2017, 09:01 AM	#1037
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Kunzite And if high sharpness is required by a high proportion of the (potential) customers. If and only if. You haven't made that case. I've added bit above illustrating this point. Originally posted by normhead One of my favourite stories was a day in the craft sale booth, a guy bought one of her images and one of mine. She spend a minute or two expelling what was wrong with mine, heavy contrast, dark shadows (a K20D sunset) image. At the end of of her little lecture, he simply nodded, pointed at it and said "I want that one." It may not have been photographically perfect in her mind (it was in mine or I wouldn't have printed it" but it was in his. There's a lot of folks out there who need to relax on the technical evaluations and just ask "does this appeal to me?" The fact that these "more painterly " photos less desirable is completely unsupported. as demonstrated As illustrated here, at least it used to be illustrated before Photobucket started holding my images for ransom, while it is important in some images, sharpness past a certain level is not necessary in every image. I've yet to see evidence a DFA 150-450 is better than my Tamron SP AF 300 which with the 1.4 or 1.7x is faster, despite the fact it's 20 years newer. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/38-photographic-technique/203024-who-too...hotograph.html Last edited by normhead; 11-26-2017 at 09:09 AM.

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11-26-2017, 08:53 AM	#1036
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Your preferences, your style, your customers. If it works for you, great. All I'm saying here is that sharpness is not very important to you, but it might be to others. And if high sharpness is required by a high proportion of the (potential) customers... Ricoh Imaging doesn't really have a choice. They can't sell much on "yeah... this lens is... adequate", while getting lukewarm reviews all over. They can't sell at prices allowing other advancements like a new ring-type SDM motor (which hopefully will become inexpensive enough to be included in many other lenses). They have to align with whatever current standards, at the very least.

11-26-2017, 11:09 AM	#1038
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	My case is made by anyone discussing about sharpness, lack of CA, AF speed and other characteristics we can expect from the new lenses. The problem here is that you're making your case based on "sharpness past a certain level is not necessary in every image". Yet your conclusion is that Pentax should not make sharper lenses - a gross generalization; you're making up an arbitrary limit which you say Pentax should not surpass. But everyone else did. And you don't explain how Pentax could survive, if all the other brands have the advantage - be it real or perceived. If the zoom reached prime quality... I'd say it's fine.

11-26-2017, 11:39 AM	#1039
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Kunzite My case is made by anyone discussing about sharpness, lack of CA, AF speed and other characteristics we can expect from the new lenses. The problem here is that you're making your case based on "sharpness past a certain level is not necessary in every image". Yet your conclusion is that Pentax should not make sharper lenses - a gross generalization; you're making up an arbitrary limit which you say Pentax should not surpass. But everyone else did. And you don't explain how Pentax could survive, if all the other brands have the advantage - be it real or perceived. If the zoom reached prime quality... I'd say it's fine. Hogwash, my conclusion is that Pentax should make all kinds of lenses, 1.4 primes through ƒ4 primes, ƒ2.8, ƒ4 and variable aperture zooms they don't have to just focus on really expensive "super sharp" huge heavy 2.8 lenses Super sharp lenses and with weaker borders and lenses sharp across the frame. .Their current focus on 1.4 primes and 2.8 zooms is simply misplaced in terms of possible sales and market share. But, spin it any way you want. Just don't tell me what I think. I'm never impressed by folks who tell me what I think. They always seem to get it wrong. And it's usually intentionally, so they can make some kind of nit-picking argument. Speak for yourself dude.

11-26-2017, 11:52 AM - 3 Likes	#1040
Racer X 69 Moderator Man With A Camera Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: The Great Pacific Northwet, in the Land Between Canada and Mexico Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,073	OK. This discussion has derailed, so much so that it will never really get back on topic. And the squabbling among the usual suspects has begun to escalate. You girls need to kiss and make up. So . . . . . . . Take that gear and get out there, and make some sharp, or not so sharp, images that are why y'all got cameras in the first place. Still plenty of late autumn, early winter things to shoot, or, for our friends in the Southern Hemisphere, late spring, early summer. And then come on back and share that work. I for one always enjoy the beautiful work that many of you share here. Sharp, or not so sharp. Preferably shot with a Pentax camera.