[johnmflores]

Facts?

Why are so many people taking a Ricoh rep's statement as fact?

"What’s more encouraging for Ricoh is that half of the customers buying the camera aren’t Pentax loyalists but new customers, Eguchinotes."

None of us know if this is true. He offered no evidence supporting this claim.

Using this unsubstantiated claim to state that most Pentaxians don't want video from their dslr and new users not wanting video from their Pentax dslr is purely conjecture.

My understanding is that company representatives will often parse data to spin it favorably but they will never flat out lie as there are legal consequences to that (i.e., misleading investors, etc...).

[normhead]

Facts?

Why are so many people taking a Ricoh rep's statement as fact?

That must be it, it couldn't possibly be real good news for Pentax.

More conjecture. Now it's fallen to "Pentax is stretching the truth." How low will you guys go?

Anyone who presents data that doesn't agree with your world view must by lying right? I see how this works.

Defend the world view at all costs.
"The truth will set you free, but first it will make you really angry."

James Spader from "the Blacklist"

[Mistral75]

My understanding is that company representatives will often parse data to spin it favorably but they will never flat out lie as there are legal consequences to that (i.e., misleading investors, etc...).

Of course but it might be "according to a survey concerning 50 K-1 buyers done in September 2016 in Japan." We are lacking the usual footnote written in small print.

[normhead]

Of course but it might be "according to a survey concerning 50 K-1 buyers done in September 2016 in Japan." We are lacking the usual footnote written in small print.

Some data is always better than no data.

They may have only 50 users, but you have nothing.

The only way to refute a small data sample is a larger data sample. Conjecture about what might be is worth nothing.

What you guys seem to be ignoring is there may be a market for exactly the camera Pentax makes and that if that is the case, Pentax is doing a very good job of filling it. What others not attuned to that market might want is irrelevant as long as Pentax can turn a profit in their chosen market.

---

Last edited by normhead; 04-21-2017 at 09:32 AM.

[johnmflores]

That must be it, it couldn't possibly be real good news for Pentax.

More conjecture. Now it's fallen to "Pentax is stretching the truth." How low will you guys go?

Anyone who presents data that doesn't agree with your world view must by lying right? I see how this works.

Defend the world view at all costs.
"The truth will set you free, but first it will make you angry."

Norm, what I am saying is that the statement by the rep should be taken at face value and is likely true.

You really need to chill. I'm glad the K-1 is selling well. I'm glad that it's drawing Canikonians.

[normhead]

Norm, what I am saying is that the statement by the rep should be taken at face value and is likely true.

Oops my bad, I'm dashing in and out while pulling a fridge and stove and dishwasher getting ready for new appliances, I should probably bow out until the jobs done and I can give the thread more attention.

I've corrected my post, I wasn't actually responding to your post but the one above it.

[johnmflores]

Oops my bad, I'm dashing in and out while pulling a fridge and stove and dishwasher getting ready for new appliances, I should probably bow out until the jobs done and I can give the thread more attention.

Just make sure they are full frame appliances.

[normhead]

Just make sure they are full frame appliances.

I just want them to all fit the holes they are supposed to go into.

One might be 1/8 inch too big according to spec, in which case, I'll be pulling apart the cupboard with the kitchen sink in it and that will take an hour or two. I'm a little anxious. The truck stood us up yesterday and hasn't showed up yet today. I have way to much going on.

If I had any light at all I'd be out shooting the few flowers that have come up, to keep myself distracted. But it's cloudy overcast and miserable. Nothing to do but sit and fret, and post in threads I really don't care that much about...

After all, Pentax is going to do what they are going to do... we can yack all we want, it doesn't matter. They can come out with a body that is $1000 more, first rate AF and 4k video tomorrow, I will still have my K-1, and it will still be my camera of choice.

[jgnfld]

That is true. I'm not debating that at all...

Since that is the subject of the thread, why are you debating something else?

[johnmflores]

Since that is the subject of the thread, why are you debating something else?

Read the body of the original post.

[geomez]

Anyone who presents data that doesn't agree with your world view must by lying right?

Norm, you can reread what I wrote. I never claimed anyone was lying, I simply stated that there is no evidence presented for the claim. It is as of right now simply a claim. A claim that you're using as irrefutable facts to beat people up.

I imagine you may not agree with that previous sentence and that's fine, but I for one have been telling people my opinion, and you've been belittling me and everybody who's opinion differs from yours, and you've been doing it in the name of "facts".

I'm done arguing about this point because it's going no where.

[jgnfld]

Some data is always better than no data.

...

The only way to refute a small data sample is a larger data sample...

I agree pretty much with the first statement.

BUT, as someone who did stats for 4 decades at a post grad/post doc/professional level, I must SERIOUSLY disagree with the second statement!!!

Randomness of the sample is FAR more key than mere size at pretty much all size levels!!! On a national level, generally, a random sample of 1000 will FAR outperform a larger, but nonrandom sample into the many 10s or 100s of thousands (or more).[COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added 04-21-17 at 05:54 PM ----------

Read the body of the original post.

People have complained about video here. But I have seen precisely zero argumentation or data to refute “Video is not our number one priority. In most cases our customers are not primarily shooting video” with their cameras, Eguchi says." All I have seen is personal complaints.

[thibs]

History also says that Pentax pushing video can ruin a good camera (K20D -> K7)

Completely disagree. This has been way overblown.

[cali92rs]

But this thread isn't about video good, bad, or indifferent. It's about the marketing fact that the K-1 is drawing in a larger community.

There are plenty of video threads around.

The OP made this statement in the original post:
Not wasting effort on gimmicks which only a irrelevant few whine about...

So, part of this thread is refuting the fact that the folks that care about video are "irrelevant".

He made the statement, therefore, like it or not, the thread is at least partially about video.

---------- Post added 04-21-17 at 04:29 PM ----------

Anyone who presents data that doesn't agree with your world view must by lying right? I see how this works.

Who presented data? The company rep? If he presented data, I do not see it anywhere *shrugs*

[Uluru]

Still blaming the OP for not saying what you think he should have?
Pentax attracted users from other platforms without improving video, and that is a fact.
The clear inference is they attracted those users because they didn't invest in video but produced a cheaper still image body. The chose to not use the lenses they own for their other systems and repurchase everything from Pentax.

Pentax operates in a wholly different layer of imaging industry, and that layer is created by tectonic shifts in other layers. There is always something moving towards the Pentax layer, and we may assume what that may be. My guess is, people who move in Pentax layer are annoyed with the sameness of trends and their drumbeat insane pace, and they want different features altogether. They are after something else. Perhaps they don't know what that else could be, but when they find Pentax, they get it. They understand it then.

When Leica introduced M10, its major camera milestone, that comes without video by design, because that was the request from thousands of users they surveyed .. we may assume Leica too shares that layer. So something is going on in the market, invisible of barely visible, that frustrates users from other layers, and they move. They are not happy, and wish a different idea about the experience of imaging.

Is it lack of specs they want? Or, better to say, a balanced set of specs that does not take experience away, nor it demands investments elsewhere? 4K video is a beast in itself, and for many requires a whole new computer and RAID array to handle it, and — more time! It is way too much to ask, while their life and precious moments are running away.

Balanced simplicity is perhaps that what such users appreciate.