For each Pentaxian buying K-1 another Nikon/Canon shooter jumped ship to Pentax

beholder3 · 05-02-2017, 02:12 AM - **3 Likes**

Not a single video feature made it even into the top 10 of firmware features requested by customers: https://www.murvey.com/report?57ebb18722f26fe60195ab36&key=weEaR

That's reality from 300 users.

The beauty of these surveys is that you can get a much broader feedback from users than just from a text thread that is flooded by a handful of very loud people who think the world rotates around them.

Stomp your little feet as you will. Your are not relevant. :-)

surfar · 05-02-2017, 02:34 AM

Surveys are only indicative of the people who participate....same as political polls and look what happened!

People who want better video are relevant, to the camera brand that provides what they want.....and guess who isn't providing it!

Kunzite · 05-02-2017, 03:11 AM

Yeah, right. I've seen for more than a decade.
"OMG Pentax doesn't have/isn't good at X! This other company has a well implemented X, Pentax is missing the train!"
Some time later, Pentax has X working just fine. Are they happy? Nope; they're looking for the next X Pentax doesn't do well.

The moral of the story? There will always be an X, thus people will always complain.

**monochrome** · 05-02-2017, 03:44 AM - **4 Likes**

It is a closed system. Effort expended to improve video by definition means something else wasn't developed. To the extent video development impedes stills features development - say, lenses, or an AF sensor that fills the FF image circle, or predictive tracking AF algorithms, or faster WiFi + apps, or tethering, or flash triggers, or, or, or - video development is inefficient.

Video is a priority. It's just a lower priority than everything else.

Last edited by monochrome; 05-02-2017 at 06:38 AM.

surfar · 05-02-2017, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

Video is a priority. It's just a lower priority than everything else.

Ha ha....

Which is a shame....I will buy the next crop body(K3iii???or whatever they call it)....only if it offers 4K, otherwise i'll buy a Fuji/Panasonic/Sony...I'm waiting to see whats on offer.

**RobA_Oz** · 05-02-2017, 05:02 AM

Originally posted by surfar

Surveys are only indicative of the people who participate....same as political polls and look what happened!

People who want better video are relevant, to the camera brand that provides what they want.....and guess who isn't providing it!

I can't see how a poll of Pentax users bears a broad similarity to the recent polls of voting intentions, unless Pentax users want to hide their true intentions!

Maybe that's the secret here. We say video isn't important, when we secretly crave it, but we're too embarrassed to publicly admit to it.

mecrox · 05-02-2017, 05:21 AM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

I can't see how a poll of Pentax users bears a broad similarity to the recent polls of voting intentions, unless Pentax users want to hide their true intentions!

Maybe that's the secret here. We say video isn't important, when we secretly crave it, but we're too embarrassed to publicly admit to it.

The answer could just as easily be corporate politics. A few years ago, Pentax were singing the praises of screwdrive lenses. Contrary to what they said, the real reason was more likely that Pentax hadn't developed or licensed modern lens motors so they had no choice but to market what they had. It is probably the same with video. They are downplaying it because they haven't developed or licensed quality video components and designed for what they involve, such as heat dissipation. When they do, their attitude towards video will suddenly change. It's just good old marketing really, polishing the apples you have rather than the ones you don't have.

I wouldn't give much weight to surveys. They just reinforce existing prejudices. Besides, companies have to plan for where they think things will be in a few years' time and where they think their new users will come from. Concentrating solely on your existing users and paying no heed to the morrow is a recipe for going out of business. Unless one thinks Ricoh are bonkers, this is not what they will be doing.

Kunzite · 05-02-2017, 06:36 AM

No sane company would praise technologies or features where the competitors have the advantage; you won't find Fujifilm, nor the m4/3 crowd "singing the praises of FF" for example. Marketing your existing products is how things are done; nothing to see here, no reason to point fingers.
And Ricoh Imaging's message about video is informative, they're telling us they're working on it but it's not high priority. No nefarious purpose here either, on the contrary.

I trust buyers more than I trust people threatening not to buy "unless X".

**monochrome** · 05-02-2017, 06:39 AM

Originally posted by surfar

Ha ha....

Which is a shame....I will buy the next crop body(K3iii???or whatever they call it)....only if it offers 4K, otherwise i'll buy a Fuji/Panasonic/Sony...I'm waiting to see whats on offer.

Why Ha Ha? That's the kernel of the issue.

mohb · 05-02-2017, 06:58 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

It is a closed system. Effort expended to improve video by definition means something else wasn't developed. To the extent video development impedes stills features development - say, lenses, or an AF sensor that fills the FF image circle, or predictive tracking AF algorithms, or faster WiFi + apps, or tethering, or flash triggers, or, or, or - video development is inefficient.

Video is a priority. It's just a lower priority than everything else.

It's all part of an odd refusal of some on here who refuse to accept that Pentax aren't Sony/Panasonic/Fuji or any other camera company that invests in video development. Unless you want to believe that the same people that developed the K3 line and the K1 really don't know what they are doing then accept that video is not a priority for them.

thibs · 05-02-2017, 07:10 AM

Originally posted by surfar

Ha ha....

Which is a shame....I will buy the next crop body(K3iii???or whatever they call it)....only if it offers 4K, otherwise i'll buy a Fuji/Panasonic/Sony...I'm waiting to see whats on offer.

4K only? Or 4K with proper codec, proper bitrate, clean HDMI output, microphone input with adjustable levels, mechanical SR, headphones adjustable output and whatever video specific color spaces (which ARE important) ???

This is very different from 'I want 4K'.

Kunzite · 05-02-2017, 07:12 AM

You can make a guess (it's called moving the goalposts

)

thibs · 05-02-2017, 09:24 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Kunzite

You can make a guess (it's called moving the goalposts

)

Of course I can but questioning the 4K post was funnier

surfar · 05-02-2017, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by thibs

This is very different from 'I want 4K'.

Who are you quoting? because you made that up...ha ha, you are funny Or think that way.

---------- Post added 05-03-17 at 06:14 AM ----------

Originally posted by monochrome

Why Ha Ha?

Why not?....I saw the humor.

johnmflores · 05-02-2017, 12:51 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by beholder3

Not a single video feature made it even into the top 10 of firmware features requested by customers: https://www.murvey.com/report?57ebb18722f26fe60195ab36&key=weEaR

That's reality from 300 users.

The beauty of these surveys is that you can get a much broader feedback from users than just from a text thread that is flooded by a handful of very loud people who think the world rotates around them.

Stomp your little feet as you will. Your are not relevant. :-)

After lagging behind the industry for the better part of a decade, do you really think that people serious about video are still here waiting for Pentax to deliver? All that survey proves is that anyone that wanted to get involved in video has already left.

05-02-2017, 02:12 AM - 3 Likes	#226
beholder3 Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,112 Original Poster	Not a single video feature made it even into the top 10 of firmware features Not a single video feature made it even into the top 10 of firmware features requested by customers: https://www.murvey.com/report?57ebb18722f26fe60195ab36&key=weEaR That's reality from 300 users. The beauty of these surveys is that you can get a much broader feedback from users than just from a text thread that is flooded by a handful of very loud people who think the world rotates around them. Stomp your little feet as you will. Your are not relevant. :-)

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05-02-2017, 02:34 AM	#227
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,137	Surveys are only indicative of the people who participate....same as political polls and look what happened! People who want better video are relevant, to the camera brand that provides what they want.....and guess who isn't providing it!

05-02-2017, 03:11 AM	#228
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Yeah, right. I've seen for more than a decade. "OMG Pentax doesn't have/isn't good at X! This other company has a well implemented X, Pentax is missing the train!" Some time later, Pentax has X working just fine. Are they happy? Nope; they're looking for the next X Pentax doesn't do well. The moral of the story? There will always be an X, thus people will always complain.

05-02-2017, 03:44 AM - 4 Likes	#229
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	It is a closed system. Effort expended to improve video by definition means something else wasn't developed. To the extent video development impedes stills features development - say, lenses, or an AF sensor that fills the FF image circle, or predictive tracking AF algorithms, or faster WiFi + apps, or tethering, or flash triggers, or, or, or - video development is inefficient. Video is a priority. It's just a lower priority than everything else. Last edited by monochrome; 05-02-2017 at 06:38 AM.

05-02-2017, 04:43 AM	#230
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,137	Originally posted by monochrome Video is a priority. It's just a lower priority than everything else. Ha ha.... Which is a shame....I will buy the next crop body(K3iii???or whatever they call it)....only if it offers 4K, otherwise i'll buy a Fuji/Panasonic/Sony...I'm waiting to see whats on offer.

05-02-2017, 05:02 AM	#231
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,191	Originally posted by surfar Surveys are only indicative of the people who participate....same as political polls and look what happened! People who want better video are relevant, to the camera brand that provides what they want.....and guess who isn't providing it! I can't see how a poll of Pentax users bears a broad similarity to the recent polls of voting intentions, unless Pentax users want to hide their true intentions! Maybe that's the secret here. We say video isn't important, when we secretly crave it, but we're too embarrassed to publicly admit to it.

05-02-2017, 05:21 AM	#232
mecrox Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by RobA_Oz I can't see how a poll of Pentax users bears a broad similarity to the recent polls of voting intentions, unless Pentax users want to hide their true intentions! Maybe that's the secret here. We say video isn't important, when we secretly crave it, but we're too embarrassed to publicly admit to it. The answer could just as easily be corporate politics. A few years ago, Pentax were singing the praises of screwdrive lenses. Contrary to what they said, the real reason was more likely that Pentax hadn't developed or licensed modern lens motors so they had no choice but to market what they had. It is probably the same with video. They are downplaying it because they haven't developed or licensed quality video components and designed for what they involve, such as heat dissipation. When they do, their attitude towards video will suddenly change. It's just good old marketing really, polishing the apples you have rather than the ones you don't have. I wouldn't give much weight to surveys. They just reinforce existing prejudices. Besides, companies have to plan for where they think things will be in a few years' time and where they think their new users will come from. Concentrating solely on your existing users and paying no heed to the morrow is a recipe for going out of business. Unless one thinks Ricoh are bonkers, this is not what they will be doing.

05-02-2017, 06:36 AM	#233
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	No sane company would praise technologies or features where the competitors have the advantage; you won't find Fujifilm, nor the m4/3 crowd "singing the praises of FF" for example. Marketing your existing products is how things are done; nothing to see here, no reason to point fingers. And Ricoh Imaging's message about video is informative, they're telling us they're working on it but it's not high priority. No nefarious purpose here either, on the contrary. I trust buyers more than I trust people threatening not to buy "unless X".

05-02-2017, 06:39 AM	#234
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by surfar Ha ha.... Which is a shame....I will buy the next crop body(K3iii???or whatever they call it)....only if it offers 4K, otherwise i'll buy a Fuji/Panasonic/Sony...I'm waiting to see whats on offer. Why Ha Ha? That's the kernel of the issue.

05-02-2017, 06:58 AM	#235
mohb Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 1,912	Originally posted by monochrome It is a closed system. Effort expended to improve video by definition means something else wasn't developed. To the extent video development impedes stills features development - say, lenses, or an AF sensor that fills the FF image circle, or predictive tracking AF algorithms, or faster WiFi + apps, or tethering, or flash triggers, or, or, or - video development is inefficient. Video is a priority. It's just a lower priority than everything else. It's all part of an odd refusal of some on here who refuse to accept that Pentax aren't Sony/Panasonic/Fuji or any other camera company that invests in video development. Unless you want to believe that the same people that developed the K3 line and the K1 really don't know what they are doing then accept that video is not a priority for them.

05-02-2017, 07:10 AM	#236
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by surfar Ha ha.... Which is a shame....I will buy the next crop body(K3iii???or whatever they call it)....only if it offers 4K, otherwise i'll buy a Fuji/Panasonic/Sony...I'm waiting to see whats on offer. 4K only? Or 4K with proper codec, proper bitrate, clean HDMI output, microphone input with adjustable levels, mechanical SR, headphones adjustable output and whatever video specific color spaces (which ARE important) ??? This is very different from 'I want 4K'.

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05-02-2017, 07:12 AM	#237
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	You can make a guess (it's called moving the goalposts )

05-02-2017, 09:24 AM - 1 Like	#238
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Kunzite You can make a guess (it's called moving the goalposts ) Of course I can but questioning the 4K post was funnier

05-02-2017, 11:58 AM	#239
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,137	Originally posted by thibs This is very different from 'I want 4K'. Who are you quoting? because you made that up...ha ha, you are funny Or think that way. ---------- Post added 05-03-17 at 06:14 AM ---------- Originally posted by monochrome Why Ha Ha? Why not?....I saw the humor.

05-02-2017, 12:51 PM - 2 Likes	#240
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	Originally posted by beholder3 Not a single video feature made it even into the top 10 of firmware features requested by customers: https://www.murvey.com/report?57ebb18722f26fe60195ab36&key=weEaR That's reality from 300 users. The beauty of these surveys is that you can get a much broader feedback from users than just from a text thread that is flooded by a handful of very loud people who think the world rotates around them. Stomp your little feet as you will. Your are not relevant. :-) After lagging behind the industry for the better part of a decade, do you really think that people serious about video are still here waiting for Pentax to deliver? All that survey proves is that anyone that wanted to get involved in video has already left.