For each Pentaxian buying K-1 another Nikon/Canon shooter jumped ship to Pentax

Winder · 07-01-2017, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by mee

I equate it with the 16 MP Sony sensor in the K-5 / K-5 II. That's also a top quality sensor.

I hope the information Pentax get from the questionnaire really sinks in. It seems most of us want better autofocus and more lenses, judging from comments. Though I won't hold my breath. They had a questionnaire a year or two ago asking specifically which lenses we wanted.. not sure we got anything out of that effort.

But at least they seem curious.

The 16MP APS-C, 36MP FF and 50MP 645z all share the same generation of sensor tech. We will see how the new 42MP holds up once it gets in some other cameras..... if ever.

The feed back from the last survey might be part of the reason for the delay in lenses. The rumor is that Ricoh was torn between making new D-FA* F/1.4 primes or designing new FA Limited primes. The surveys showed that the existing user base really wanted the FA Limited lenses the most, but market research showed that Ricoh needed to produce fast professional grade glass to attract new users from other brands. Obviously Ricoh needs to develop both. I hope the KP is wildly successful and we see a FF version of the KP styled (Pentax D-LX) camera with new FA Limited glass in the near future. I think it would be very successful. Take what Fuji is doing with mirrorless APS-C (Style & lenses) and apply it to a FF body with an OVF, but don't screw it up like Nikon did with the Df.

I have said this before, but I have become convinced that Ricoh USA is 90% staffed with summer interns. Summer is the only time of year Ricoh USA marketing ever does anything. Once college classes start back in the Fall, they disappear.

Kunzite · 07-02-2017, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by mee

Though I won't hold my breath. They had a questionnaire a year or two ago asking specifically which lenses we wanted.. not sure we got anything out of that effort.

Were you expecting to get something (as in: new products) out of that survey, less than 2 years after it was initiated?
Developing a lens takes about 2-3 years (according to some other brand's CEO). Have patience, or at least don't disparage their efforts.

RonHendriks1966 · 07-02-2017, 01:25 AM

Originally posted by Winder

The feed back from the last survey might be part of the reason for the delay in lenses. The rumor is that Ricoh was torn between making new D-FA* F/1.4 primes or designing new FA Limited primes. The surveys showed that the existing user base really wanted the FA Limited lenses the most, but market research showed that Ricoh needed to produce fast professional grade glass to attract new users from other brands. Obviously Ricoh needs to develop both.

So they are sitting on their behind since 2012. They have this information since Photokina 2012. If they start thinking now, then nothing will happen in 2017.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/149081-res...velopment.html

Kunzite · 07-02-2017, 01:48 AM

Were they sitting on their behind, or it's yet another "let's accuse Pentax of something, anything"?
- the DA 1.4x RC was planned/in development at that time, and launched in February 2014. Unfortunately, they did what you asked them and made it a DA (instead of reworking it as a D FA/FF-compatible RC)
- there is no "SDM II", but there is DC and PLM
- instead of a DA 135-400, we have the D FA 150-450.
Other lenses are on the roadmap - the D FA* 85mm f/1.4, an ultra wide prime. Other requests made no sense, for example a 50mm f/1.0.

So, I have a question for you: how many of the recent lenses do you own?

RonHendriks1966 · 07-02-2017, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Were they sitting on their behind, or it's yet another "let's accuse Pentax of something, anything"?
- the DA 1.4x RC was planned/in development at that time, and launched in February 2014. Unfortunately, they did what you asked them and made it a DA (instead of reworking it as a D FA/FF-compatible RC)
- there is no "SDM II", but there is DC and PLM
- instead of a DA 135-400, we have the D FA 150-450.
Other lenses are on the roadmap - the D FA* 85mm f/1.4, an ultra wide prime. Other requests made no sense, for example a 50mm f/1.0.

So, I have a question for you: how many of the recent lenses do you own?

Yes things are made in the time since then.
-That the 1.4x tc was aps-c only was a surprise to me as to many. I see that as a mistake, but Ricoh-Imaging had zero plans on ever making a fullframe K-1 in 2014 or otherwise it would have been with larger glass.
- there is still no consumer long zoom for soccermoms. The 150-450 is to expensive for that.
- not updating the da* lenses that have SDM is not smart. You still read from time to time that one of those old lenses die on the af and that does not make them popular.
- well the 85mm/F1.4 is a missing lens in line-up since a very long time. Roadmaps are great, but like mock-ups on shows not something you can use to make images.
- also popular on that survey but never made are 24mm/F2 and 135mm/F2. I don't see them as requests that make no sense.

I currently have no camera system that I own. If I would make an investment in a camera system then it would not be on Pentax. If I would buy something today then it would be a Sony A7, since it is on offer now overhere and only costing 799 euro this weekend. I don't see myself buying into dslr anymore.....that would leave mirrorless as an option.

mecrox · 07-02-2017, 02:39 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Yes things are made in the time since then.
-That the 1.4x tc was aps-c only was a surprise to me as to many. I see that as a mistake, but Ricoh-Imaging had zero plans on ever making a fullframe K-1 in 2014 or otherwise it would have been with larger glass.
- there is still no consumer long zoom for soccermoms. The 150-450 is to expensive for that.
- not updating the da* lenses that have SDM is not smart. You still read from time to time that one of those old lenses die on the af and that does not make them popular.
- well the 85mm/F1.4 is a missing lens in line-up since a very long time. Roadmaps are great, but like mock-ups on shows not something you can use to make images.
- also popular on that survey but never made are 24mm/F2 and 135mm/F2. I don't see them as requests that make no sense.

I currently have no camera system that I own. If I would make an investment in a camera system then it would not be on Pentax. If I would buy something today then it would be a Sony A7, since it is on offer now overhere and only costing 799 euro this weekend. I don't see myself buying into dslr anymore.....that would leave mirrorless as an option.

Panasonic GX80/85 seems a popular and inexpensive way to keep a toe in the water. Panny make several good and inexpensive lenses which are ideal for it too. A decent kit for under the magic 1000 mark. Pentax know what they need to do and more surveys won't change anything. I've been reading the same list on here for a decade now: marketing, AF, lens selection, FF. Well, FF is now ticked off but the others are still there. Leave them to it and enjoy the summer. I tried a friend's A7 and was disappointed. The sensor is OK of course but everything else struck me as complete charlie romeo alpha papa.

**clackers** · 07-02-2017, 02:42 AM

Originally posted by mecrox

Panasonic GX80/85 seems a popular and inexpensive way to keep a toe in the water. Panny make several good and inexpensive lenses which are ideal for it too.

m43 sensor - ugh!

Kunzite · 07-02-2017, 02:46 AM

@Ron:
Yes, I knew you are demanding of Pentax - mostly demanding for their suicide - but without Pentax gear, and without any intention of buying Pentax gear.

They were surely working on the K-1, in 2014. Will you ever stop filling this forum with "alternative facts"?
If the survey was filled in large part by people without any intention of buying those products, at a realistic price, it's worse than useless. Fortunately Ricoh Imaging isn't basing their decision only on 3rd-party surveys, not even only on their own surveys (theirs is much better constructed to distinguish buyers from non-buyers).

Later edit: Slight clarification: surveys are used - that's why they're making them - but not as a sole factor in decision making.

**ffking** · 07-02-2017, 02:53 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

I currently have no camera system that I own. If I would make an investment in a camera system then it would not be on Pentax.

I'm actually surprised, for your own sake, that you continue using these forums - I can't see that they're anything more than a source of aggravation to you - though I'm sure we'd all miss you you if you didn't.

---------- Post added 07-02-17 at 02:54 AM ----------

Unregistered User 8 · 07-02-2017, 03:02 AM - **4 Likes**

Hi folks. We are starting to get a little personal with the posts now. Please keep it civil.

Winder · 07-02-2017, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

So they are sitting on their behind since 2012. They have this information since Photokina 2012. If they start thinking now, then nothing will happen in 2017.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/149081-res...velopment.html

I don't think they were sitting on their butts since 2012. I think Ricoh completely over estimated how quickly they could assimilate Pentax and move forward. Hoya did some good things for the Pentax brand, but they also drained the talent pool and resources to the bare minimum. I don't think Ricoh realized just how much of a shell of a company Pentax was when they took them over. I'm still not sure Pentax has the resources that they really need to develop the brand in to something that can command even 5% market share.

Kunzite · 07-02-2017, 08:24 AM - **2 Likes**

Of course Pentax can comfortably reach 5% global market share. All they have to do is to sit tight, and wait for the camera market to decline to 20 times their level

mee · 07-02-2017, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Fortunately Ricoh Imaging isn't basing their decision only on 3rd-party surveys, not even on their own surveys (theirs is much better constructed to distinguish buyers from non-buyers).

What do you mean by that? What is the point of offering a survey if they don't value the data received from the survey?

Kunzite · 07-02-2017, 09:15 AM

I said they're not basing their decision only on surveys; but of course those are part of the decision making process.
Requesting something and buying that something when (if) made available are different things.

mee · 07-02-2017, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

I said they're not basing their decision only on surveys; but of course those are part of the decision making process.

Thank you for the clarification. I really hope they are using the survey data.. so far the Pentax mantra is wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.. Look at the ultrawide crop zoom on the roadmap.. that's been there for eons.

07-02-2017, 02:46 AM	#833
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	@Ron: Yes, I knew you are demanding of Pentax - mostly demanding for their suicide - but without Pentax gear, and without any intention of buying Pentax gear. They were surely working on the K-1, in 2014. Will you ever stop filling this forum with "alternative facts"? If the survey was filled in large part by people without any intention of buying those products, at a realistic price, it's worse than useless. Fortunately Ricoh Imaging isn't basing their decision only on 3rd-party surveys, not even only on their own surveys (theirs is much better constructed to distinguish buyers from non-buyers). Later edit: Slight clarification: surveys are used - that's why they're making them - but not as a sole factor in decision making. Last edited by Kunzite; 07-02-2017 at 09:35 AM.

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07-01-2017, 05:52 PM	#826
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by mee I equate it with the 16 MP Sony sensor in the K-5 / K-5 II. That's also a top quality sensor. I hope the information Pentax get from the questionnaire really sinks in. It seems most of us want better autofocus and more lenses, judging from comments. Though I won't hold my breath. They had a questionnaire a year or two ago asking specifically which lenses we wanted.. not sure we got anything out of that effort. But at least they seem curious. The 16MP APS-C, 36MP FF and 50MP 645z all share the same generation of sensor tech. We will see how the new 42MP holds up once it gets in some other cameras..... if ever. The feed back from the last survey might be part of the reason for the delay in lenses. The rumor is that Ricoh was torn between making new D-FA* F/1.4 primes or designing new FA Limited primes. The surveys showed that the existing user base really wanted the FA Limited lenses the most, but market research showed that Ricoh needed to produce fast professional grade glass to attract new users from other brands. Obviously Ricoh needs to develop both. I hope the KP is wildly successful and we see a FF version of the KP styled (Pentax D-LX) camera with new FA Limited glass in the near future. I think it would be very successful. Take what Fuji is doing with mirrorless APS-C (Style & lenses) and apply it to a FF body with an OVF, but don't screw it up like Nikon did with the Df. I have said this before, but I have become convinced that Ricoh USA is 90% staffed with summer interns. Summer is the only time of year Ricoh USA marketing ever does anything. Once college classes start back in the Fall, they disappear.

07-02-2017, 12:00 AM	#827
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by mee Though I won't hold my breath. They had a questionnaire a year or two ago asking specifically which lenses we wanted.. not sure we got anything out of that effort. Were you expecting to get something (as in: new products) out of that survey, less than 2 years after it was initiated? Developing a lens takes about 2-3 years (according to some other brand's CEO). Have patience, or at least don't disparage their efforts.

07-02-2017, 01:25 AM	#828
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Winder The feed back from the last survey might be part of the reason for the delay in lenses. The rumor is that Ricoh was torn between making new D-FA* F/1.4 primes or designing new FA Limited primes. The surveys showed that the existing user base really wanted the FA Limited lenses the most, but market research showed that Ricoh needed to produce fast professional grade glass to attract new users from other brands. Obviously Ricoh needs to develop both. So they are sitting on their behind since 2012. They have this information since Photokina 2012. If they start thinking now, then nothing will happen in 2017. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/149081-res...velopment.html

07-02-2017, 01:48 AM	#829
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Were they sitting on their behind, or it's yet another "let's accuse Pentax of something, anything"? - the DA 1.4x RC was planned/in development at that time, and launched in February 2014. Unfortunately, they did what you asked them and made it a DA (instead of reworking it as a D FA/FF-compatible RC) - there is no "SDM II", but there is DC and PLM - instead of a DA 135-400, we have the D FA 150-450. Other lenses are on the roadmap - the D FA* 85mm f/1.4, an ultra wide prime. Other requests made no sense, for example a 50mm f/1.0. So, I have a question for you: how many of the recent lenses do you own?

07-02-2017, 02:23 AM	#830
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Kunzite Were they sitting on their behind, or it's yet another "let's accuse Pentax of something, anything"? - the DA 1.4x RC was planned/in development at that time, and launched in February 2014. Unfortunately, they did what you asked them and made it a DA (instead of reworking it as a D FA/FF-compatible RC) - there is no "SDM II", but there is DC and PLM - instead of a DA 135-400, we have the D FA 150-450. Other lenses are on the roadmap - the D FA* 85mm f/1.4, an ultra wide prime. Other requests made no sense, for example a 50mm f/1.0. So, I have a question for you: how many of the recent lenses do you own? Yes things are made in the time since then. -That the 1.4x tc was aps-c only was a surprise to me as to many. I see that as a mistake, but Ricoh-Imaging had zero plans on ever making a fullframe K-1 in 2014 or otherwise it would have been with larger glass. - there is still no consumer long zoom for soccermoms. The 150-450 is to expensive for that. - not updating the da* lenses that have SDM is not smart. You still read from time to time that one of those old lenses die on the af and that does not make them popular. - well the 85mm/F1.4 is a missing lens in line-up since a very long time. Roadmaps are great, but like mock-ups on shows not something you can use to make images. - also popular on that survey but never made are 24mm/F2 and 135mm/F2. I don't see them as requests that make no sense. I currently have no camera system that I own. If I would make an investment in a camera system then it would not be on Pentax. If I would buy something today then it would be a Sony A7, since it is on offer now overhere and only costing 799 euro this weekend. I don't see myself buying into dslr anymore.....that would leave mirrorless as an option.

07-02-2017, 02:39 AM - 1 Like	#831
mecrox Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Yes things are made in the time since then. -That the 1.4x tc was aps-c only was a surprise to me as to many. I see that as a mistake, but Ricoh-Imaging had zero plans on ever making a fullframe K-1 in 2014 or otherwise it would have been with larger glass. - there is still no consumer long zoom for soccermoms. The 150-450 is to expensive for that. - not updating the da* lenses that have SDM is not smart. You still read from time to time that one of those old lenses die on the af and that does not make them popular. - well the 85mm/F1.4 is a missing lens in line-up since a very long time. Roadmaps are great, but like mock-ups on shows not something you can use to make images. - also popular on that survey but never made are 24mm/F2 and 135mm/F2. I don't see them as requests that make no sense. I currently have no camera system that I own. If I would make an investment in a camera system then it would not be on Pentax. If I would buy something today then it would be a Sony A7, since it is on offer now overhere and only costing 799 euro this weekend. I don't see myself buying into dslr anymore.....that would leave mirrorless as an option. Panasonic GX80/85 seems a popular and inexpensive way to keep a toe in the water. Panny make several good and inexpensive lenses which are ideal for it too. A decent kit for under the magic 1000 mark. Pentax know what they need to do and more surveys won't change anything. I've been reading the same list on here for a decade now: marketing, AF, lens selection, FF. Well, FF is now ticked off but the others are still there. Leave them to it and enjoy the summer. I tried a friend's A7 and was disappointed. The sensor is OK of course but everything else struck me as complete charlie romeo alpha papa.

07-02-2017, 02:42 AM	#832
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by mecrox Panasonic GX80/85 seems a popular and inexpensive way to keep a toe in the water. Panny make several good and inexpensive lenses which are ideal for it too. m43 sensor - ugh!

07-02-2017, 02:53 AM	#834
ffking Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Old South Wales Posts: 6,039	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 I currently have no camera system that I own. If I would make an investment in a camera system then it would not be on Pentax. I'm actually surprised, for your own sake, that you continue using these forums - I can't see that they're anything more than a source of aggravation to you - though I'm sure we'd all miss you you if you didn't. ---------- Post added 07-02-17 at 02:54 AM ----------

07-02-2017, 03:02 AM - 4 Likes	#835
Unregistered User 8 Closed Account Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,694	Hi folks. We are starting to get a little personal with the posts now. Please keep it civil.

07-02-2017, 07:55 AM	#836
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 So they are sitting on their behind since 2012. They have this information since Photokina 2012. If they start thinking now, then nothing will happen in 2017. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/149081-res...velopment.html I don't think they were sitting on their butts since 2012. I think Ricoh completely over estimated how quickly they could assimilate Pentax and move forward. Hoya did some good things for the Pentax brand, but they also drained the talent pool and resources to the bare minimum. I don't think Ricoh realized just how much of a shell of a company Pentax was when they took them over. I'm still not sure Pentax has the resources that they really need to develop the brand in to something that can command even 5% market share.

07-02-2017, 08:24 AM - 2 Likes	#837
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Of course Pentax can comfortably reach 5% global market share. All they have to do is to sit tight, and wait for the camera market to decline to 20 times their level

07-02-2017, 09:01 AM	#838
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by Kunzite Fortunately Ricoh Imaging isn't basing their decision only on 3rd-party surveys, not even on their own surveys (theirs is much better constructed to distinguish buyers from non-buyers). What do you mean by that? What is the point of offering a survey if they don't value the data received from the survey?

07-02-2017, 09:15 AM	#839
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I said they're not basing their decision only on surveys; but of course those are part of the decision making process. Requesting something and buying that something when (if) made available are different things.

07-02-2017, 09:26 AM	#840
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by Kunzite I said they're not basing their decision only on surveys; but of course those are part of the decision making process. Thank you for the clarification. I really hope they are using the survey data.. so far the Pentax mantra is wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.. Look at the ultrawide crop zoom on the roadmap.. that's been there for eons.