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05-13-2017, 07:10 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by dstar Quote
Well very interesting comment about Sony
Pentax camera full line and Sony full line cant match 2. Sony price every new camera skyrocket up Interesting how many people can buy new A9 /4500 $ body??? . Pentax can be very attractive to people with price and super quality image

Also how much bigger sensor we need 36 , 45 or more .Price will not go down only up
Did you look price Phase one camera with 100MG sensor......480000$
Best Ricoh can do now lenses lenses lensess.
Also point shot camera market fast go down as well Why Everybody has Apple or Samsung phone with high quality camera
This another factor
Landscape, Architectural, Product, and Fine art (among others) are probably going to often go for the most resolution they can get.

For many others around 24 MP is probably plenty.. I always thought more the merrier until I tried more. Fills memory cards faster.. fills the hard drive fast.. fills the backup drives faster.. More pixels, more problems.

05-13-2017, 09:29 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
why can't Pentax do PDAF AF better?
That is a great mystery. PDAF technology is practically ancient. I think the problem is in the speed of the PDAF system. The A9 basically reads the sensor and checks/adjusts focus 60 times per second. It doesn't seem like the K-1 is running anywhere near that many cycles per second. When it comes to tracking a moving subject that is the key. Both Sony and Fuji have rapidly developed AF technology. Olympus is probably still better than Fuji, but Sony has jumped up to the head of the pack. Why is Pentax stuck?? Why are we not seeing the same improvements in AF Ricoh that we have seen from Sony, Fuji, or Olympus? The D500 AF is really good.

I have used a Canon G7x a couple of times. I think it is over priced (like all of Canon's gear), but its is still a very good little camera. A friend of mine uses one a good bit during wedding receptions.

I think the PDAF and color (RGB) sensor have to be replaced with a 2MP imaging sensor that is capable of facial recognition and locking the eyes. That is the only way I can think of that a camera with an OVF can match an EVF based camera for those features. The camera would also need to have automatic lens calibration technology to eliminate front and back focus. Companies that are going to stick with the OVF have to find a solution because mirrorless cameras do have advantages when it comes to AF.
05-13-2017, 09:34 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
If this is possible on a 1" 20Mp sensor why can't Pentax do PDAF AF better?
Same issue with the Canon M5 and M6, they are slower to AF than a G7 . Why?
05-14-2017, 02:13 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
That is a great mystery. ... but Sony has jumped up to the head of the pack. Why is Pentax stuck?? .
Because for that, serious investment must be made, and the mothership ain't helping them. Ricoh Imaging must do it all, and they can't show any loss that is isn't a loss deliberately made by the mothership, to write off something, mess the with bookkeeping, etc.

05-14-2017, 02:27 AM   #35
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I actually wonder if Ricoh will release a k4 apsc top-of-the-line camera. A k1 shrinked and faster, instead of another prosumer fancy camera like kp.
05-14-2017, 02:46 AM   #36
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K3(2)+1=k6.
05-14-2017, 03:11 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Nikon lost the battle several years ago and they are just now paying the price. You have to go back to the Canon 5DII launch to really see where the industry made a major change. Both Nikon and Sony has cameras that were better still image cameras than the 5DII. The Sony A900 and the D700 were both better than the 5DII in just about every way except that the 5DII had HD video. As much as I dislike it, video changed the DSLR market. Sony A900 became irrelevant and wedding shooters who wanted to expand their business offering dropped the D700 like it was radioactive to switch to the 5DII. Everyone from Zeiss to Samyang now make cine lenses for DSLRs. Nikon has matched Canon every step of the way in terms of still images, and in many cases Nikon has bested Canon in terms of still image quality, but Nikon never really embraced HD video like Canon. People have been more than willing to deal with the sub-par DR of Canon sensors.

Sony, unlike Nikon, dove head first into HD and 4K video. It was a pretty big slap in the face for Sony who was an industry leader in video to have Canon crush them by adding HD video to their DSLR. Given Sony's heritage you would have thought that Sony would have been the first to implement HD video in a FF DSLR. Until recently, Sony's marketing team has done nothing but throw as much crap on the wall as they can and see what sticks, but that seems to be changing. Video is something Sony knows a lot about and they have a long history in that arena. The blending of still and video opened the door for Sony and they will surpass Nikon in a couple of years. Sony has Nikon by the balls. Until a second sensor manufacturer enters the market who can challenge Sony's quality and technology Nikon is going to be in trouble.

Ricoh isn't in any hurry to do anything. Hopefully they will keep making high quality glass and bodies that represent a terrific value. They seem to have no desire to be an industry leader, but they seem to be in a good position to make market share from Nikon from below while Sony eats away at Nikon's top end users. The value the K-1 offers compared to a D810 is obvious. Nikon has been able to charge a premium for 5 year old technology and keep it profit margins, but those days are over. Ricoh is selling a camera that has more features for 1/2 the price, while Sony is making Nikon's most technically advanced cameras look like Commodore 64s. Yes, Nikon currently has more glass options and a better support network, but they don't have the technology.
It's not about cameras. It's all about business.

In the past decade. ...
  1. Asia has emerged as a massive powerhouse market
  2. Video has become essential for many trying to earn their living from imaging. Dual use is in
  3. Sensor design and fabrication have consolidated
  4. Smartphones have knocked out everything below at least 1000 dollars/euros/etc as a profitable market for camera companies. In a couple of years that could be 2000 bucks
  5. Digital never meant just the sensor. It meant digital computing and the digital network
  6. Mirrorless designs, sold to consumers on size and newness, are in fact a much more flexible and cost-efficient means of mating our analogue world with digital computing but many are slow to understand this

Put all that together. Sony and Canon have spotted the trends better than others have so their business have done well, particularly the Asia connection with Canon I suspect. In addition smartphones have changed our whole idea of photography and the way we interact with image-recording machines.

As for the other companies with their mad accountants, their lack of investment or ideas and abject failure to see how the world has changed under their feet: it's been like watching a much-loved old family pet struggle on long past the point at which it would have been better for all to say goodbye. The sooner some of them are put out of their misery or passed to people who do actually care the better. I'm increasingly thinking it comes down to Canon and Leica or put up with more of the same turmoil in years to come, poss also Fuji for as long as the Instax goldmine continues.

Last edited by mecrox; 05-14-2017 at 03:18 AM.
05-14-2017, 03:26 AM   #38
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od.
QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Video has become essential for many trying to earn their living from imaging. Dual use is in
How about all the professional photographers using a medium format camera? I must conclude that Austria is a country lagging behind the rest of the world when they systematically hire a videographer and photographer for any kind of event: the photographer doing the job of taking photos and the videographer doing the job of filming. I've seen ORF working, next time I'll ask them if they would use a 5D mark IV for video broadcast. From what you are saying, my guess is that in the UK, photographers get hired to make videos and videographers lost their jobs?


Last edited by biz-engineer; 05-14-2017 at 03:39 AM.
05-14-2017, 04:17 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
od.
How about all the professional photographers using a medium format camera? I must conclude that Austria is a country lagging behind the rest of the world when they systematically hire a videographer and photographer for any kind of event: the photographer doing the job of taking photos and the videographer doing the job of filming. I've seen ORF working, next time I'll ask them if they would use a 5D mark IV for video broadcast. From what you are saying, my guess is that in the UK, photographers get hired to make videos and videographers lost their jobs?
I'm saying it seems that competence with video is a basic skill you are expected to have regardless of whether a particular task involves it. Using a specialist in video alongside a stills guy may be a great or better solution, of course, but my post was about the camera cos and the business angle. For a camera brand, eschewing video is just cutting you straight out of contention in the buying process = fewer sales, damaged rep. Nikon have no video presence, nada. Bad move.

I'm told YouTube is the world's most popular search engine after Google. True? The message is video = massive, and an earner if you run a successful YouTube channel. One wonders if some camera cos even know what YouTube is.

Last edited by mecrox; 05-14-2017 at 04:24 AM.
05-14-2017, 07:14 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
I'm told YouTube is the world's most popular search engine after Google. True? The message is video = massive, and an earner if you run a successful YouTube channel. One wonders if some camera cos even know what YouTube is.
Some people use Pentax cameras for recording youtube videos, seems to work fine.
05-14-2017, 04:46 PM - 1 Like   #41
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Video and photography are two different skills altogether. Not one man can do both well at the same time.
Even at a movie set, there are photographers who work to deliver input to the director and as a form of record too.

Camera manufacturers realise that, and even in the mirrorless world, there will be image-emphasis and video-emphasis oriented cameras. Panasonic and Fuji already recognise that. Ricoh Imaging won't even bother with anything video, because the market is already changing, from "one-camera-does-it-all" era defined by the Canon 5D, to more specialised, higher quality equipment in each area.
05-14-2017, 11:53 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Ricoh Imaging won't even bother with anything video, because the market is already changing, from "one-camera-does-it-all" era defined by the Canon 5D, to more specialised, higher quality equipment in each area.


If so, could You name certain models that cover this type of business solution?

Personally, I don't agree - we can of course see the 5D MKIV being stripped from nice 4k but it is pure business choice, rather than real difference - Canon for instance, doesn't want to cannibalize their cinema line. Sony also gives nice stills-video package in their A7R II, having of course more video-oriented line in "S" and of course FS series.
05-15-2017, 08:33 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Video and photography are two different skills altogether. Not one man can do both well at the same time.
Even at a movie set, there are photographers who work to deliver input to the director and as a form of record too.

Camera manufacturers realise that, and even in the mirrorless world, there will be image-emphasis and video-emphasis oriented cameras. Panasonic and Fuji already recognise that. Ricoh Imaging won't even bother with anything video, because the market is already changing, from "one-camera-does-it-all" era defined by the Canon 5D, to more specialised, higher quality equipment in each area.
Ricoh can't do much unless they solve their CPU problem. As long as they rely on Socionext, they'll be losers on number of features.
05-15-2017, 03:40 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Ricoh can't do much unless they solve their CPU problem. As long as they rely on Socionext, they'll be losers on number of features.
I am puzzled. So what Leica uses then? I am often comparing Pentax and Leica because they have similar lineup, across different formats.
According to Wikipedia, Leica's Maestro is based on Milbeaut.

But the performance of the Image Signal Processor Maestro 2 in Leica SL is quite impressive:

Processor: Leica Maestro II series
Internal RAM: 2 GB RAM — 33 DNGs or 30 JPEGs and DNGs

Image Data Format: JPEG, DNG
Colordepth: 14 bit (DNG), 8 bit (JPEG)
JPEG Color Space: Adobe RGB, ECI RGB, sRGB

Motion:
MP4, MOV
4K (4096 × 2160) @ 24 fps; 4K (3840 × 2160) @ 25 and 30 fps;
1080 @ 24, 25, 30, 50, 60, 100 and 120 fps;
720 @ 24, 25, 30, 50, 60, 100 and 120 fps
8 bit (recording); 10 bit (HDMI not recording)
4:2:2/10 bit (HDMI only); 4:2:0/8 bit (recording on SD card)
L-Log selectable

SD Storage: UHS-1 and UHS-2
Drive modes: Continuous fast F (11fps)


Another note is, that Maestro 2 is now ~3 years old already. So what is the issue here?
05-15-2017, 04:23 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
So what Leica uses then?
You can't talk about Leica. Leica is a legend.
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