Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-24-2017, 08:54 AM - 1 Like   #31
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2016
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,178
I think the two cameras have reasonable different features and users, so "a tie" is OK.

But, it seems like the last 60% of the writeup about the K-1 is only discussing shortcomings. Re-reading the Sony paragraph, it does mention shortcomings as well, but they are all of the form "this is bad, but it also has this good feature" or only mentioned as asides.

06-24-2017, 10:55 AM   #32
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 22,752
IIRC, PF exists because DPR is what it is.
06-24-2017, 11:21 AM   #33
Pentaxian
Site Supporter
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 29,965
QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Can you show me where they say the methodology is based solely on the numerical score of the original review?
Why would they quote scores that aren't used in the final analysis? Is there an explanation for that? I don't know what's worse, people with no math skills or people who are apologists for them. Why would they publish opinions that are contradicted by their own review scores? Just the fact that these inconsistencies have been pointed out to you, and you continue to defend them earns you some time on my ignore list. The price for getting off of it is that you actually say something I consider to be meaningful and I actually click on the link to see what you said.

For landscape or portraits the A7ii is so far below the K-1 it's hard to comprehend what the A7II might have that would level the playing field.
06-24-2017, 11:34 AM - 3 Likes   #34
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 6,092
QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Why would they quote scores that aren't used in the final analysis? Is there an explanation for that? I don't know what's worse, people with no math skills or people who are apologists for them. Why would they publish opinions that are contradicted by their own review scores? Just the fact that these inconsistencies have been pointed out to you, and you continue to defend them earns you some time on my ignore list. The price for getting off of it is that you actually say something I consider to be meaningful and I actually click on the link to see what you said.

For landscape or portraits the A7ii is so far below the K-1 it's hard to comprehend what the A7II might have that would level the playing field.
Please do put me on your ignore list.

My math skills are fine. The Nikon D610 had a score of 86 so by your logic the D610 should have won. Obviously that score was not what they were using. I'm not apologizing for them. I'm just point out the obvious.

No inconsistencies have been pointed out. What has happened it that people have made ignorant assumptions as to how DRP came to their decision. Nobody here actually knows how they came to this opinion, so what we get are a bunch of conspiracy theories about DPRs motives and biases.

06-24-2017, 11:42 AM - 1 Like   #35
Pentaxian
D1N0's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: ---
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,146
scores are relative to other camera's that have already been reviewed. The D610 is two years older than the K-1 and the A7 II is one year older. The value of a score erodes as newer camera's appear. This makes it understandable the D610 is not recommended but not why the k-1 was not on top. That is easily explained though. dpreview favours mirrorless and weighs AF for noobs very heavily.
06-24-2017, 12:02 PM   #36
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
RobA_Oz's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,025
We're second guessing how they justify ignoring their own numerical scoring system, but the fact is the numbers involved are at least in part generated from an emotion, not a hard measurement. If something like product age is considered to be a factor, then it's simple enough to put a weighting on it and generate another number (justifying that particular one might be harder). In other non-scientific fields, people do this all the time, and I might have expected DPR to do the same, but they are the originators of the meandering bicycle AF test…
06-24-2017, 01:02 PM   #37
Pentaxian
photoptimist's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2016
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,495
QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
If a 2% difference is not statistically significant or within the margin of error then yes 82% vs 84% can be considered a tie.
Well if we're going to get all statistical and technical, then it cannot be "considered a tie" because the chance that the true score is something like exactly 83-83 despite the data saying 82-84 is vanishingly small.

What statistically significance or margin of error tells you is how confident you can be about the declaration of the winner and nothing to do with a tie. The typical threshold for "statistical significance" is 5% which implies one is at least 95% confident that the right camera was declared a winner (and less than a 5% chance Sony won). Yet even if the result is not significant or within the margin of error, the likelihood that Pentax is the true winner is still greater than 50% which surely is not a tie.

Thus, Pentax is most likely the best camera and how likely must be greater than 50% but may be less than 95%.
06-24-2017, 01:18 PM - 4 Likes   #38
mee
Banned




Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6,491
The fact that you guys are arguing over this frivolous article for 3 pages thus far tells me it was 'mission accomplished' over there..

06-24-2017, 01:26 PM   #39
Pentaxian
Zygonyx's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ile de France
Posts: 3,247
Tied buzz is better than no buzz :jap:
06-24-2017, 01:32 PM   #40
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 22,752
K-1 didn't win by more than the margin of 'No effin way we say a Pentax won.' So 84:82 = Tie

Q.E.D.
06-24-2017, 02:31 PM   #41
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 6,092
For all we know the editors simply voted on what camera they thought was the best buy for under $2,000. That's all this is. The opinions of a couple of people. The Canon, Nikon, & Fuji people are probably mad they got beat by Pentax & Sony.
06-24-2017, 03:00 PM   #42
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
clackers's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 11,230
QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
For all we know the editors simply voted on what camera they thought was the best buy for under $2,000. That's all this is. The opinions of a couple of people.
What this is about is confirmation that at DPR, objectivity counts for nothing.

They ignored their own scoring system.

Nikon D610 owners, your camera rated 87 percent once upon a time!
06-24-2017, 03:36 PM - 1 Like   #43
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2016
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 150
I own it- want it- had it

I find these numbers more interesting....indicates there is a lot of demand for the K1 with 659 wants. More people want a Pentax K1 than a Sony A7ii (603 wants)?
Take it all with a grain of salt but I will take it as good news for Pentax!
06-24-2017, 04:14 PM - 4 Likes   #44
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 6,092
QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
What this is about is confirmation that at DPR, objectivity counts for nothing.

They ignored their own scoring system.

Nikon D610 owners, your camera rated 87 percent once upon a time!
Of course it is subjective. It you are looking for a FF camera for under $2,000 and you need good video features then the A7II is the better choice. If you are going to architecture or astro then the K-1 is the better choice. Which camera is best is going to be subjective based on the needs and preferences of the buyer. Its like asking for the best lens. There is no one "best" lens. It depends on what you are planning on shooting.

The K-1 tied for top camera and you guys are still complaining.
06-24-2017, 04:43 PM - 1 Like   #45
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
RobA_Oz's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,025
QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Of course it is subjective. It you are looking for a FF camera for under $2,000 and you need good video features then the A7II is the better choice. If you are going to architecture or astro then the K-1 is the better choice. Which camera is best is going to be subjective based on the needs and preferences of the buyer. Its like asking for the best lens. There is no one "best" lens. It depends on what you are planning on shooting.

The K-1 tied for top camera and you guys are still complaining.
"We wuz robbed!"

Seriously, the way I read this discussion is that some people are confirming their dim view of DPR and others are expressing an objection to the use of numerical scoring in subjective evaluation. However, the fact that a good result for the under-underdog seems to have largely been overlooked in the process, or at least not much commented on, is a little baffling, even bemusing.

Still, that's politics in the modern era.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
100mm, 50mm, camera, cameras, da*, design, fa, ff, five lenses, full-frame, k-1, lenses, model, optics, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, people, player, price, records, ricoh, score pentax, sdm, sony, word
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nature Tongue tied and twisted/Just an earthbound misfit, I CreationBear Post Your Photos! 5 01-09-2016 06:04 PM
DPR gives the Sony A7r 82% Gold Award jogiba Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 2 02-13-2014 08:05 PM
DPR: Sony A99 84% Gold Award jogiba Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 6 12-23-2012 03:28 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:43 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top