Final score - Pentax 84, Sony 82. So WE'RE TIED??!!?!

**clackers** · 06-25-2017, 04:59 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by BrianR

82% and 84% are most definitely a tie... a tie for how much shame they brought their Japanese parent companies. Anything below 90% is a fail, after that you're just fighting for who the best loser is and no one keeps track of that. Both should be recalled, and apologies should be issued to DPR for having to waste their time reviewing these cameras.

That's quite a lot of hara kiri you're calling for, Brian. The next CP+ is going to be like a Tarantino movie.

BrianR · 06-25-2017, 05:10 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by clackers

That's quite a lot of hara kiri you're calling for, Brian. The next CP+ is going to be like a Tarantino movie.

DPR's objective scores reveal the failures of the camera industry, it's not on me!

PS. They can film the carnage with the Sony A7R II (90%) or a Nikon D500 (91%), either should be acceptable.

npc · 06-25-2017, 05:13 AM - **1 Like**

seems most people don't realize the dpr score and gold/silver award labels have nothing to do with this article, but are just automatically pulled and displayed from the review database.
their scores are only somewhat meaningful compared to the state of the market when the review was released

**monochrome** · 06-25-2017, 05:47 AM

Originally posted by rod_grant

"both" means all five lenses have the same two qualities - each one is both heavy and expensive.

The D FA28~105, an excellent, in-house designed and manufactured lens - is neither heavy nor expensive. Supposed changes to the former abject disdain for Pentax aside, it is particularly galling that the 28~105 is the K-1 kit zoom.

Once again, the DPR writer didn't actually know the products and the Editors allowed a sloppy article to be published.

**rod_grant** · 06-25-2017, 06:02 AM - **1 Like**

Thanks mono, I was just commenting on the 'both' aspect.
Journalism, in all fields, is not what it used to be!!

normhead · 06-25-2017, 06:13 AM

The conclusions are obvious, if the K-1 is tied with the A-7ii, the A7r series are an upgrade to the K-1, same as they would be to an A7ii. So while not doing so directly, this clearly establishes Pentax as a second tier company in DPR's mind. It means ig you have an A7ii a K-1 isn't an upgrade. The message, if you own a Sony A7 don't look to switch brands to Pentax, the camera you have is already just as good.

They seem to be taking part in Sony's fight for market share. Still it's weird, they'd target Pentax. The amount of market share Pentax has, isn't really worth going after.

Kunzite · 06-25-2017, 06:37 AM - **4 Likes**

Aren't we exaggerating a little?
They're not using the numerical scores, which are too subjective to be accurate anyway IMHO, and then valid only at the moment of reviewing the camera. So I see no reason to complain.
Then, simply having a Pentax win - even as a tie with another camera - it's a tremendous progress.

The only comment I have about their results is: yeah, they had to have a mirrorless "win"

Wait, there's another: "Which camera should I buy?"? I don't think that page title is appropriate, as a buying decision surely is more complex and personal to fit into a few simple patterns.

**monochrome** · 06-25-2017, 07:36 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by normhead

The conclusions are obvious, if the K-1 is tied with the A-7ii, the A7r series are an upgrade to the K-1, same as they would be to an A7ii. So while not doing so directly, this clearly establishes Pentax as a second tier company in DPR's mind. It means ig you have an A7ii a K-1 isn't an upgrade. The message, if you own a Sony A7 don't look to switch brands to Pentax, the camera you have is already just as good.

They seem to be taking part in Sony's fight for market share. Still it's weird, they'd target Pentax. The amount of market share Pentax has, isn't really worth going after.

Intentional, Alinskyite tactics. Strengthen the affinity bond of your group (brand) identity(ies) and your website subscribers/members by establishing a universal 'Other' (What we're NOT) - in this case Pentax. SInce the market share is small, Othering Pentax doesn't really hurt DPR (Amazon) sales of gear overall.

IOW

Pentaxians Comment: But that's outright wrong.. Pentax is good!

DPR Community Reply: RHEEEEEEEEEE!

farhagh · 06-25-2017, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by BrianR

Anything below 90% is a fail

Not really. However, having no camera with a Gold award in the category means DPR reviewers see shortcomings in the cameras of the group.

Kunzite · 06-25-2017, 10:03 AM

Or maybe the criteria they're using aren't well thought-out?

**monochrome** · 06-25-2017, 12:15 PM - **1 Like**

Despite all the critical, ironic posts I've made on this thread, the most logical observation is, on the whole, DPR just isn't very good at what they set out to do. If I were a reputable reviewer like Richard Butler I would be very frustrated.

**clackers** · 06-25-2017, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

, on the whole, DPR just isn't very good at what they set out to do.

Well, they"re a Sears catalogue.

They set out to be a shopfront for Amazon and do it very well .

It's the number one photography website when its raison d'etre is advertising as editorial.

I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw 'em, as my grandfather used to say.

leekil · 06-25-2017, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by clackers

They set out to be a shopfront for Amazon and do it very well .

It's the number one photography website when its raison d'etre is advertising as editorial.

I wouldn't say they *set out* to be a shopfront, but now that they are owned by Amazon...

And in that that context, it's in their best interest to have *more* ties, because it promotes more cameras that people might buy.

**clackers** · 06-25-2017, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by leekil

...

And in that that context, it's in their best interest to have *more* ties, because it promotes more cameras that people might buy.

Well, once you're an online shopfront, your content now favours whatever brands you make either the most sales from or whoever pays you the most in advertising.

Check out what Google returns on your page when you search on a good or service.

Ultimately it's about them, not us.

SGOMMO7 · 06-25-2017, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by rod_grant

"both" means all five lenses have the same two qualities - each one is both heavy and expensive.

Ha, Ha,

So that's what he meant!

Though in my defense the word, 'both' can be used as either an pronoun or a conjunction. If it's being used as a conjunction in this sentence –

“If you're starting from scratch, be aware that there are just a few modern Pentax full-frame lenses, and they're both heavy and expensive.”

Then its appearance is superfluous as the word, 'both' can simply be eliminated from the sentence without changing the meaning –

“If you're starting from scratch, be aware that there are just a few modern Pentax full-frame lenses, and they're heavy and expensive.”

So its inclusion should indicate that it's being used as a pronoun relating to the, "few modern Pentax full-frame lenses" that is just priorly mentioned.

---------- Post added 06-26-17 at 12:52 AM ----------

Originally posted by Mistral75

50 mm f/2,8 macro: 1988 for the design, 2004 for the current model.
100 mm f/2,8 macro: 1987 for the design, 2009 for the current model.

The design of these two lenses is roughly 30 years old.

Thanks for the info didn't know the 50 went that far back.

Originally posted by Kunzite

The 100mm macro's design was updated, with the first D FA version.

I heard this to. I haven't heard whether or not any optical touchups were done on the 50mm .

Both the 50mm and 100mm have been given the D FA designation the D standing for digital. They are both marketed as being designed for digital sensors. Though this might be a case of false advertising I could also give the benefit of the doubt to Pentax.

I'm not sure if a significant percentage of people would consider these lenses, "modern" or not.

06-25-2017, 07:36 AM - 1 Like	#68
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by normhead The conclusions are obvious, if the K-1 is tied with the A-7ii, the A7r series are an upgrade to the K-1, same as they would be to an A7ii. So while not doing so directly, this clearly establishes Pentax as a second tier company in DPR's mind. It means ig you have an A7ii a K-1 isn't an upgrade. The message, if you own a Sony A7 don't look to switch brands to Pentax, the camera you have is already just as good. They seem to be taking part in Sony's fight for market share. Still it's weird, they'd target Pentax. The amount of market share Pentax has, isn't really worth going after. Intentional, Alinskyite tactics. Strengthen the affinity bond of your group (brand) identity(ies) and your website subscribers/members by establishing a universal 'Other' (What we're NOT) - in this case Pentax. SInce the market share is small, Othering Pentax doesn't really hurt DPR (Amazon) sales of gear overall. IOW Pentaxians Comment: But that's outright wrong.. Pentax is good! DPR Community Reply: RHEEEEEEEEEE! Last edited by monochrome; 06-25-2017 at 09:27 AM.

06-25-2017, 01:10 PM	#74
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by leekil ... And in that that context, it's in their best interest to have more ties, because it promotes more cameras that people might buy. Well, once you're an online shopfront, your content now favours whatever brands you make either the most sales from or whoever pays you the most in advertising. Check out what Google returns on your page when you search on a good or service. Ultimately it's about them, not us. Last edited by clackers; 06-25-2017 at 03:48 PM.

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06-25-2017, 04:59 AM - 1 Like	#61
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by BrianR 82% and 84% are most definitely a tie... a tie for how much shame they brought their Japanese parent companies. Anything below 90% is a fail, after that you're just fighting for who the best loser is and no one keeps track of that. Both should be recalled, and apologies should be issued to DPR for having to waste their time reviewing these cameras. That's quite a lot of hara kiri you're calling for, Brian. The next CP+ is going to be like a Tarantino movie.

06-25-2017, 05:10 AM - 2 Likes	#62
BrianR Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,332	Originally posted by clackers That's quite a lot of hara kiri you're calling for, Brian. The next CP+ is going to be like a Tarantino movie. DPR's objective scores reveal the failures of the camera industry, it's not on me! PS. They can film the carnage with the Sony A7R II (90%) or a Nikon D500 (91%), either should be acceptable.

06-25-2017, 05:13 AM - 1 Like	#63
npc Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 313	seems most people don't realize the dpr score and gold/silver award labels have nothing to do with this article, but are just automatically pulled and displayed from the review database. their scores are only somewhat meaningful compared to the state of the market when the review was released

06-25-2017, 05:47 AM	#64
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by rod_grant "both" means all five lenses have the same two qualities - each one is both heavy and expensive. The D FA28~105, an excellent, in-house designed and manufactured lens - is neither heavy nor expensive. Supposed changes to the former abject disdain for Pentax aside, it is particularly galling that the 28~105 is the K-1 kit zoom. Once again, the DPR writer didn't actually know the products and the Editors allowed a sloppy article to be published.

06-25-2017, 06:02 AM - 1 Like	#65
rod_grant Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Wangaratta, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,951	Thanks mono, I was just commenting on the 'both' aspect. Journalism, in all fields, is not what it used to be!!

06-25-2017, 06:13 AM	#66
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	The conclusions are obvious, if the K-1 is tied with the A-7ii, the A7r series are an upgrade to the K-1, same as they would be to an A7ii. So while not doing so directly, this clearly establishes Pentax as a second tier company in DPR's mind. It means ig you have an A7ii a K-1 isn't an upgrade. The message, if you own a Sony A7 don't look to switch brands to Pentax, the camera you have is already just as good. They seem to be taking part in Sony's fight for market share. Still it's weird, they'd target Pentax. The amount of market share Pentax has, isn't really worth going after.

06-25-2017, 06:37 AM - 4 Likes	#67
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Aren't we exaggerating a little? They're not using the numerical scores, which are too subjective to be accurate anyway IMHO, and then valid only at the moment of reviewing the camera. So I see no reason to complain. Then, simply having a Pentax win - even as a tie with another camera - it's a tremendous progress. The only comment I have about their results is: yeah, they had to have a mirrorless "win" Wait, there's another: "Which camera should I buy?"? I don't think that page title is appropriate, as a buying decision surely is more complex and personal to fit into a few simple patterns.

06-25-2017, 09:41 AM	#69
farhagh Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Ohio Photos: Albums Posts: 339	Originally posted by BrianR Anything below 90% is a fail Not really. However, having no camera with a Gold award in the category means DPR reviewers see shortcomings in the cameras of the group.

06-25-2017, 10:03 AM	#70
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Or maybe the criteria they're using aren't well thought-out?

06-25-2017, 12:15 PM - 1 Like	#71
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Despite all the critical, ironic posts I've made on this thread, the most logical observation is, on the whole, DPR just isn't very good at what they set out to do. If I were a reputable reviewer like Richard Butler I would be very frustrated.

06-25-2017, 12:31 PM	#72
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by monochrome , on the whole, DPR just isn't very good at what they set out to do. Well, they"re a Sears catalogue. They set out to be a shopfront for Amazon and do it very well . It's the number one photography website when its raison d'etre is advertising as editorial. I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw 'em, as my grandfather used to say.

06-25-2017, 01:03 PM	#73
leekil Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,003	Originally posted by clackers They set out to be a shopfront for Amazon and do it very well . It's the number one photography website when its raison d'etre is advertising as editorial. I wouldn't say they set out to be a shopfront, but now that they are owned by Amazon... And in that that context, it's in their best interest to have more ties, because it promotes more cameras that people might buy.

06-25-2017, 11:36 PM	#75
SGOMMO7 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 83	Originally posted by rod_grant "both" means all five lenses have the same two qualities - each one is both heavy and expensive. Ha, Ha, So that's what he meant! Though in my defense the word, 'both' can be used as either an pronoun or a conjunction. If it's being used as a conjunction in this sentence – “If you're starting from scratch, be aware that there are just a few modern Pentax full-frame lenses, and they're both* heavy and expensive.” Then its appearance is superfluous as the word, 'both' can simply be eliminated from the sentence without changing the meaning – “If you're starting from scratch, be aware that there are just a few modern Pentax full-frame lenses, and they're heavy and expensive.” So its inclusion should indicate that it's being used as a pronoun relating to the, "few modern Pentax full-frame lenses*" that is just priorly mentioned. ---------- Post added 06-26-17 at 12:52 AM ---------- Originally posted by Mistral75 50 mm f/2,8 macro: 1988 for the design, 2004 for the current model. 100 mm f/2,8 macro: 1987 for the design, 2009 for the current model. The design of these two lenses is roughly 30 years old. Thanks for the info didn't know the 50 went that far back. Originally posted by Kunzite The 100mm macro's design was updated, with the first D FA version. I heard this to. I haven't heard whether or not any optical touchups were done on the 50mm . Both the 50mm and 100mm have been given the D FA designation the D standing for digital. They are both marketed as being designed for digital sensors. Though this might be a case of false advertising I could also give the benefit of the doubt to Pentax. I'm not sure if a significant percentage of people would consider these lenses, "modern" or not.