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08-18-2017, 12:34 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by sqrrl Quote
It's never going to be a mainstream hit as it falls short in several areas that others excel at (AF, Battery, and video are all legitimate objections), but it's not a bad camera for the price, especially for people outside of the US (the relative price points are different in different places).

It's also not as small as people make out - it's nice to carry compared to things like the 5d3, but it's still twice the size of most mirrorless cameras.
My own experience is that I also tend to use larger apperture for low light and that AF performance is then critical. Pentax is just good enough there but not nice.

SR was an advantage in the past, but now Sony, Panasonic and Olympus all have it...

KP is sold as comparable price as A7 and D610 there and theses camera are both better for low light and still better for AF. D610 is a bit more expensive, A7 is a bit less expensive. A7 is almost half the weight and have the deph too.

08-18-2017, 03:52 AM   #92
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I can't really be bothered arguing the point so much - but I frequently shoot at night in a dark town (typically wide open) - there is no problem with the Kp managing to focus in low light, it doesn't really hunt at all - I've caught focus on a star with mine, which is ridiculous - I don't know what that is in terms of ev, but none of the cameras I mentioned can do that in my experience. The Kp isn't amazing for CAF, but the SF is accurate down to 1 sec @ 2.4 & iso 3200 - at that point I'm making mistakes, not the camera.

The shake reduction is streets ahead of anything else I've used. I wasn't saying that the Kp has shake reduction like it's a new feature - the actual feature itself has evolved.

Here in New Zealand both of those cameras A7 & D650 are $2000-2500 odd dollars (I just priced a D650 last week, $2350 body only was the cheapest I could find from a reputable supplier), and the Kp is $1700, The K70 is $1100-1200 - that sets a different price point. The A7 in my experience isn't better at either of these things in low light, though it is better for video, the d650 I wouldn't know as I haven't used one, I had assumed it was similar to the d810, if it has a better sensor then I guess you're right there.
08-19-2017, 02:08 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by sqrrl Quote
he Kp isn't amazing for CAF, but the SF is accurate down to 1 sec @ 2.4 & iso 3200 - at that point I'm making mistakes, not the camera.
That why I say it is good but not great. I'am not thinking focussing on star, something that anyway couldn't be dome with MF just fine, I am thinkin more shooting an event with people moving, potentially quite fast. The K3 does the job there reasonably well but isn't great.

Actually, I don't use AFS anymore as for my practice, this is a waste of time. The camera only AF when I press the AF back button, not on the shutter and then AFC is always on but only triggered when I push the button. This way I am in total control of what the AF is doing.

Typically I'll choose the focus point so I am also in control of where exactly the AF is doing. With the K3 and (K3-II, KP, K1) Pentax has finally some decent AF. But it isn't as precise as mirrorless that remove back/front focus and any lack of precision from not having the AF sensor on the imagine sensor itself. This work better for me than AFS in all situations, but still it require to react when the subject is moving.

The Pentax does it, reasonably well but I recognize more or less myself in the Pentax forum finding. You don't get 98% keepers like Nikon but significantly less. So I tend to take more shots than needed to ensure the shot.

Except with recent DC and PLM lenses (that honestly I don't own) it isn't as precise neither as Canikon on that.There no much choice in modern AF lenses. There the 15-30 24-70, 70-200 for fast zoom with only the last one truely making sense for APSC. There the 16-85, 18-135, 55-300 PLM or 150-450 but all theses lenses are slow meaning you are at f/4 or f/5.6 instead of f/2, loosing 2-3 stops.

I have FA ltds and DA as main lenses, they are all screw drive. You could say it is stupid to do so if I need fast focussing to have lenses with screen drive. But where do you see any alternative in the brand? The best we have is DA*55 that is SDM in primes.

QuoteOriginally posted by sqrrl Quote
The shake reduction is streets ahead of anything else I've used. I wasn't saying that the Kp has shake reduction like it's a new feature - the actual feature itself has evolved.
Good to know but that doesn't help on moving subject. I would agree that I'am thankfull of the existing SR when I shot with the FA77 in the night and only at 1/100s as it help get image that are always sharp if in focus. I know that if I'am steady I may go far bellow that, but for living subjects, well there no point to shoot at 1/5 or 1/10s.

Here for example a shot at 1/80s, f/2.8, iso 1600 with K3, pushed one EV in post to iso 3200. If there was anything to do on this shot, I'd say it would be to increase the shutter speed so for example the hand of the subject in focus is not blured. So maybe 1/160s, f/2.8, iso 1600, pushed 2EV in post (so equiv iso 6400) or 1/250, f/2, iso 1600, pushed 1.5 EV in post. (equiv iso 4000-4500)




I agree on occasion I do some still subject with slow shutter speed but you'll remark the surrounding moving subject are not that sharp.

K5, iso 6400, 1/5s, DA15:



QuoteQuote:
Here in New Zealand both of those cameras A7 & D650 are $2000-2500 odd dollars (I just priced a D650 last week, $2350 body only was the cheapest I could find from a reputable supplier), and the Kp is $1700, The K70 is $1100-1200 - that sets a different price point. The A7 in my experience isn't better at either of these things in low light, though it is better for video, the d650 I wouldn't know as I haven't used one, I had assumed it was similar to the d810, if it has a better sensor then I guess you're right there.
For prices

I spoke of old D610, surely it is cheaper than D650. Here in France A7 goes official price by Sony 999. D610 available at 1070 from great seller. Pentax KP is 1300 except in a single not so well know shop you'd have to trust... Amazon has it at 1300. That the same price as Nikon D7500, A7II from great sellers or a D750 on gray market.

Interrestingly, you can find A7RII from some great seller as same price as K1, about 2200-2400. On gray market, K1 is 100 cheaper and the same price as a D810 on gray market.

In all theses cases I don't see a single reason why somebody not already invested in Pentax would choose the KP or the K1.


For high iso

The best APSC body measured by Dxo get about 1400 score on low light with A6300/A6500/D7300. A7 get arround 2400 if I recall it right. D610 is similar to D810 with around 2900.

The more recent bodies get better dynamic range than the old one but are not better at noise overall, they make it more pleasing. But what the K70 or KP do with Jpeg, I get the same or better with DxO prime.

When I compare KP jpeg with A6300 jpegs on imaging resources, if I select the normal noise reduction of A6300, the KP look significantly more detailled. I I selcect the jepgs with the least noise reduction applied of A6300, they look significantly more defined and more detailled, sharper than the KP and a bit more noise. The performance is in the end quite similar, this is about the jpeg setting you choose and I would say for any low light shot, you choose raw anyway for the max performance and get the setting that are the most pleasing to you. KP doesn't look better than other recent great performers it just have a different default setting in Jpeg. Sure it is quite better than bodies with olders sensors, but there isn't the magical KP is better than anything else thing if you know how to look and know how to process your high isos.
08-19-2017, 02:54 AM   #94
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I actually wouldn't know how the jpg is on the Kp if I hadn't accidentally shot a jewellery shoot on jpg @ 3200iso (3200 is fine for raw, but this was delicate glass work so I had to spend a bit of time in photoshop) It came out alright, and the client was happy, but I could still see problems, so yeah - I pretty well only shoot raw as I don't like how jpg interprets on any system. If I wanted to shoot jpg I'd be looking at the 5d3 or the d810 though the sony 6500 is pretty nice.

As for AF - I tend to just switch to MF when things are moving about lots in low light. Pentax has issues with the mechanical linkages when things get twitchy - I'm hoping that pentax makes some more electronically linked/powered lenses as the mechanical lever on the lens is a serious bottle neck.

Other people may feel differently but I shot film till a couple of years ago, mainly on old cameras, so manual focus is quite comfortable for me. I do wish they'd make manual focus screens more obviously available. Suffice it to say I tend to shoot at a fairly relaxed pace most of the time. I'm not photographing caffeinated squirrels.

I have to say - the prices you quoted are fairly sharp - 1300E is about 2100nzd - That's way over what I paid. And yes, I do have a few quite nice K-mount & m42 lenses. If I had to start over I'd have to re-evaluate what mount I'd use according to what I think I'll be doing going forward - I have a second m43 system which I am also very fond of.

I think in your money I paid more like 1000 Euros from as reliable a Pentax supplier as we get here & the k70 is 750ish euros locally.

At a totally personal level, I do like the ergonomics, I like the size & weight (I can wrap my left hand around it) and I really hope they carry some of the ergonomic idea's over to a flagship camera (not the battery tho - that was a dick move), I really do like having a third control wheel for ev (though I really wish it had more options).

And it does look cool

btw, nice shots.

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