[mee]

Yup, definitely expect the K-3 replacement to bounce back to at least 1400-1500.

Why do you definitely expect that?

The D7500 and 80D are flagship general purpose crop cameras and they are in the 1100 to 1300 dollar range. Only the D500 which is a highly action oriented crop body is above 1500.

K-3 series more closely resembles the D7500 and 80D and not even close to the D500.. designed for a different purpose.

[Adam]

Why do you definitely expect that?

The D7500 and 80D are flagship general purpose crop cameras and they are in the 1100 to 1300 dollar range. Only the D500 which is a highly action oriented crop body is above 1500.

K-3 series more closely resembles the D7500 and 80D and not even close to the D500.. designed for a different purpose.

I think Pentax is in a position to price their APS-C flagship like that. It'll still be significantly cheaper than the K-1, but should be more than the KP, and the K-3 II only ended up being cheap because it was old. $1399 MSRP would therefore sound reasonable, which would be $100 more than the original K-3 at launch in 2013, which seems to have been the trend for upper-trier crop bodies as of late.

[monochrome]

IF you sold a K3 to buy a K1 and find that sometimes you'd prefer a smaller camera and you still have limited lenses for casual shooting you "might" get a KP. {snip}

I did precisely that and I am very happy. K-1 is primarily for manual legacy FF lenses (but I did buy a D FA28~105).

[luftfluss]

Why do you definitely expect that?

The D7500 and 80D are flagship general purpose crop cameras and they are in the 1100 to 1300 dollar range. Only the D500 which is a highly action oriented crop body is above 1500.

K-3 series more closely resembles the D7500 and 80D and not even close to the D500.. designed for a different purpose.

The D7500 is in some ways a slight downgrade from the D7200 (lack of dual SD cards, no battery grip option, lower MP count, removing AI lens compatibility). Since it's a "D500 Lite" they needed to ensure significant price differentiation. Pentax doesn't have this issue. I bet from an imaging and body-feature point of view the Pentax APS-C flagship will significantly top the D7500.

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Last edited by luftfluss; 08-15-2017 at 08:21 PM.

[luftfluss]

Some folks still don't get that the KP is to the side of the Pentax DSLR heirarchy. It's like the Nikon Df and Olympus Pen-F in that regard. It introduces a new sensor, new IBIS system, new styling, and changeable grips to Pentax DSLR. People need to stop attempting to pigeonhole it in context of the traditional Pentax DSLR lineup and just accept it for its own sensibilities.

[mee]

I think Pentax is in a position to price their APS-C flagship like that. It'll still be significantly cheaper than the K-1, but should be more than the KP, and the K-3 II only ended up being cheap because it was old. $1399 MSRP would therefore sound reasonable, which would be $100 more than the original K-3 at launch in 2013, which seems to have been the trend for upper-trier crop bodies as of late.

Well the KP price is beginning to slowly sag, as predicted, which provides a larger hole for a K-3 II successor to fit into.

And, unless something dramatic happens, Ricoh hasn't exactly made revolutionary gains on Autofocus tracking. Nor have we seen fast PLM type lenses to make use of it on crop beyond the 55-300 they released last year. I don't think the system is ready to compete against the D500 or 7d II. It is better to stick in the general purpose pool with general purpose pricing imo.

I think the HUGE want out of the community is for a body comparable to a D500 in performance, but that isn't realistic. Thankfully, nor is the price.

The K-1 is for all intents and purposes is comparable to the D810, which costs roughly a thousand dollars more. Scaling down, I think the K-3 II will still be around 1100-1200 USD... they don't seem to price so incredibly as Nikon or Canon, despite the overall market turn to 'premium' pricing.

[mee]

The D7500 is in some ways a slight downgrade from the D7200 (lack of dual SD cards, no battery grip option, lower MP count, removing AI lens compatibility). Since it's a "D500 Lite" they needed to ensure significant price differentiation. Pentax doesn't have this issue. I bet from an imaging and body-feature point of view the Pentax APS-C flagship will significantly top the D7500.

It still improved subject tracking, faster burst rate, much much larger buffer, and added a flip screen over the D7200. It is an upgrade (provided the feature deletes you mention aren't deal killers for you) in many cases.

Pentax doesn't have the issue you mention, yes. They also don't appear to have an AF system that rivals even the D7200 (last gen) much less the D500. And I think the AF system is really what differentiates D7200/D7500 from D500 (well.. that and buffer).

Again general purpose vs sport.

But Pentax doesn't have anything close to a sport body... because they don't have a 'sport' AF system. Even if you can use the K-3 or even a K1000 for sports. Skill in using isn't the same as hardware technical specifications (I add this because I know it will otherwise go there with other members).

That is, unless the K-3 II successor gets 2 or 3 generations of revisions in it's single revision cycle... but I really don't see that happening. I think we should be a lot more realistic with our expectations.

With that in mind, I think we end up with a camera more comparable between the K-3 II (dual sd slots, battery grip support) and KP (improved Sensor performance) with a slightly improved AF system (tracking).

I'm not expecting some hot rod capable of taking Canon or Nikon on with their sport crop bodies. Not even close. It seems Pentax isn't even interested in competing with those... that costs a lot of money (R&D, lens support, pro services support, marketing) that they seem not to want to spend. Let's be conservative with our expectations of Ricoh Imaging with Pentax cameras. In the rare situation that we're wrong, then we'll be pleasantly surprised vs disappointed.

[Kunzite]

Yup, definitely expect the K-3 replacement to bounce back to at least 1400-1500.

Yes, I don't expect them to go right for 2000$, but some jump in price, especially if - as hinted by that camera survey from a while ago - the camera will be a step upwards...
Pentax cannot make good progress while only having cheap products. People complaining about the idea of a 1400-1500 Pentax APS-C should stop complaining about AF, 4K video and so on.

[D1N0]

If this thread is going to keep on being alive, somebody should change the alarmist title

[Zygonyx]

Good point

[Nicolas06]

Again, those are definitely no mid level features :
- electronic shutter up to 1/26000s
- 5 axis stabilisation
- iso and AF performance (according to Pentax APS-C standard) / best denoised APS-C IQ of the market
Do you insist you need a nespresso ?

KP is a mix of K3 and K70. I am not impressed that it kept the max 1/6000 of the K70 and consider as a given that the jpeg engine would not go worse than the older entry level body. High electronic shutter speed is irelevant as even the A9 doesn't manage to completely fix the rolling shutter issue with it far more advanced sensor. Increadibly huge number to shot the sun at f/0.7 isn't something I do that often.

AF still use the same sensor than for original K3 with tweaked algorithms that don't manage to equal the Nikon on a one of the most basic AF module of their line.

I don't think that the difference between a K3 and KP overall is that great and the body is much more expensive. From consumer perspective there absolutely no reason to buy. People that want small/light buy mirrorless. People that want best AF don't go Pentax, people that want cheap entry level go K70 or equivalent Nikon/Canon. People that want APSC flagship these day have Nikon, Canon and nothing in Pentax.

[Kunzite]

AF still use the same sensor than for original K3 with tweaked algorithms that don't manage to equal the Nikon on a one of the most basic AF module of their line.

Is that from personal experience?
I'm asking, because the most basic Nikon AF module currently in use is the 11 point one from the D3400. And because I've made my own, similar assumptions which proved wrong in practice.

[biz-engineer]

People that want APSC flagship these day have Nikon, Canon and nothing in Pentax.

nope, they don't even have DSLR, they all go without the mirror, CIPA shows.

[Adam]

Is that from personal experience?
I'm asking, because the most basic Nikon AF module currently in use is the 11 point one from the D3400. And because I've made my own, similar assumptions which proved wrong in practice.

The KP has the same AF performance as the K-3 II, which indeed has the same hardware as the K-3 but with tweaked algorithms for when a subject approaches the camera. This works well and greatly increases the tracking keeper rate, but does not improve the overall AF speed. Not too impressive alongside the competition's middle to high end bodies, but still far from lacking for a camera in its class, IMO.

[sqrrl]

The thing is all camera can do that now. There isn't a single camera that perform bad in low light, be it m4/3, APSC or FF in today market. The KP is nice. But the same can be said of all other cameras in the market. I get great low light performance out of my K3 too and many people do it with their K5...

I use all of these cameras, I work as a technician in a photo department. So on a daily basis I use m43, nikon, canon at all price points, and I own Pentax. In my job I mainly use a camera for teaching and for documenting things, for this the Kp is a great camera for the price. I can grab a nikon 7200 or D810, or canon 80d, 5d3 Panny GH4, etc. Each has their advantages, not a bad camera among them.

That said, the Kp is exceptionally good for low light, not just noise, or high iso, but also the viewfinder, colour balance and shake reduction - I prefer it in low light to all of the cameras I mentioned above.

It's never going to be a mainstream hit as it falls short in several areas that others excel at (AF, Battery, and video are all legitimate objections), but it's not a bad camera for the price, especially for people outside of the US (the relative price points are different in different places).

It's also not as small as people make out - it's nice to carry compared to things like the 5d3, but it's still twice the size of most mirrorless cameras.